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JaneB

Leicester City 2 Chelsea 0

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8 hours ago, Ham said:

Ok you win. Nobody should ever change their opinion on anything ever. FRANK IN, FOREVER. 

In the words of Wayne to Barry in a favourite episode of Auf Wiedesehen Pet, "You're an exasperating geezer sometimes".

I just find it odd.

For months I was crucified for stating what I thought  was obvious. All anyone said was he should be given time, we had no pre season, we have a load of new players, it's a strange season. Then we went on a 17 game unbeaten run and everything was wonderful. How wrong was I and others, how silly did we look.

We then lost to Everton, went on a run of 5 losses in 8 and suddenly everyone that wanted to give him time has had enough. 8 games from thinking everything was brilliant and now you all want him sacked. 

One of the clubs greatest ever players, an absolute legend has been given 8 games for his biggest supporters to turn on him. 8 games.

 

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4 minutes ago, Martin1905 said:

I just find it odd.

For months I was crucified for stating what I thought  was obvious. All anyone said was he should be given time, we had no pre season, we have a load of new players, it's a strange season. Then we went on a 17 game unbeaten run and everything was wonderful. How wrong was I and others, how silly did we look.

We then lost to Everton, went on a run of 5 losses in 8 and suddenly everyone that wanted to give him time has had enough. 8 games from thinking everything was brilliant and now you all want him sacked. 

One of the clubs greatest ever players, an absolute legend has been given 8 games for his biggest supporters to turn on him. 8 games.

 

I don’t think it is so much turning on him, rather the signs are now that the rot won’t be reversed. 

Id love for us to stick to our guns and perhaps move on some of the players that are clearly underperforming. Not just from a tactical aspect, but from an aspect of what professional footballers should be able to achieve. You know, the basic stuff. 

Personally I thought the game to remove him was after City. That was an abject performance and considering how important the game was and how lethargic and uninterested the players looked the signs were there that they don’t play for him anymore. Once that happens it’s downhill from there. Against Leicester the attitude stunk up the place. Players not doing basic stuff like running for each other and covering spaces. It doesn’t matter what the back of the shirt says your name is. You won’t beat anyone with that attitude.

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Ham   
14 minutes ago, Martin1905 said:

I just find it odd.

For months I was crucified for stating what I thought  was obvious. All anyone said was he should be given time, we had no pre season, we have a load of new players, it's a strange season. Then we went on a 17 game unbeaten run and everything was wonderful. How wrong was I and others, how silly did we look.

We then lost to Everton, went on a run of 5 losses in 8 and suddenly everyone that wanted to give him time has had enough. 8 games from thinking everything was brilliant and now you all want him sacked

One of the clubs greatest ever players, an absolute legend has been given 8 games for his biggest supporters to turn on him. 8 games.

 

And now you're straight back to poor persecuted Martin again.  

So much strawman in this post too. 

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30 minutes ago, Martin1905 said:

We then lost to Everton, went on a run of 5 losses in 8 and suddenly everyone that wanted to give him time has had enough.

Not everyone, Martin. Many, sure, but not everyone.

30 minutes ago, Martin1905 said:

8 games from thinking everything was brilliant and now you all want him sacked. 

Everything wasn't 'brilliant' even then. But no, not everyone wants him sacked. I want him to at least see out the season, to find out if he can drive the players into turning it around.

This is (and always has been) a forum of differing opinions. Long may it survive and prosper that way.

 

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Ham   
6 minutes ago, Martin1905 said:

 

Please explain.

I used bold. Even before Everton nobody said everything was brilliant and you only need to look at the match threads. West Brom? Southampton? Some frustrating games but we were getting decent points from poor performances.

As for "wanting" Frank sacked, you wrote that as if the likes of me are thrilled to have come to that conclusion. I don't want him sacked but the last 8 results have each showed a decline from where we were in December.

You lurked in the undergrowth during the 17 game unbeaten run and couldn't wait to pounce on him. Your hiatus was well timed. 

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31 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

As one of the posters who hasn't felt there's been enough to Lampard's management/coaching for some time, I am a little surprised that it's taken just 6 or 7 results for what seems here at least a significant shift in how people think about his job.

Crap results are always going to follow poor management, but it is the poor management that has always been my problem. This recent run hasn't contributed to my thinking very much, the same way that wins against Luton and Burnley or indeed another few months of unbeaten form very likely wouldn't shift me. I'd need to see big changes in how we play more than anything else.

I can very much see that Lampard could be a coach who guides us to reasonable form over the rest of the season. Sadly, I haven't seen anything in the last 18 months overall (not just the last 2) that suggests to me he will ever be better than that. This season is, ego aside, over for us, now a complete write-off, but longer term we definitely need better than that.

Its performances Vs results for me. Poor results I can put up with, as long as I am seeing some progress with the team, players or an understanding of what we are trying to achieve.

When performances clearly decline and look to be declining further, coupled with poor results and poor decision making. That's when, for me personally, I see no alternative but to change things.

I accept that you , Droy , Martin, Blue Rod have not been happy with a number of things for months, including performances amongst many other things in that. I didn't buy into a number of things you guys were saying, but it now appears that you were all reading the situation better than I was, as a number of the comments you have all been making are becoming more evident (a number of comments were also created to suit a narrative too)

I don't consider that to be me or any other poster jumping ship at the time of bad results. In fact, I would say most of the pro Frank backers on here still seem to be in that camp to me.

So for me personally, it does feel like we have reached the point of no return. It's certainly not results orientated though, its an accumulation of a number of things that appear more evident to me now, as to why my position has changed.

 

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1 hour ago, RobertoftheGiz said:

MT

Life to short to get wound up by anything written on this forum, However personal attacks are something else.

As for being a wind up merchant, that in the eye of the beholder.  Tongue in cheek remarks yes, Wind up merchant no.

Maybe don't take things so personal in trying to claim moral high ground.

I said your metric was pathetic - Not you. The reasoning was hilarious to me. I don't consider that a personal attack.

The real issue here, you know you could not defend your metric with the examples I gave you. So you resulted in trying to climb the moral high ground by going down the personal attack route, as that was the best way to avoid responding to the examples I gave.

Best bit in all this, I gave you the chance to walk away from the discussion yesterday and we could have declared there and then. Due to your cock sure nature, you carried it on and walked further down into your own hole, that you are now drastically trying to close by any means possible.

All your own making mate. My final post on the subject with you as you clearly couldn't justify it any further.

Edited by LeBoeufsGolfBall

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paulw66   
12 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

We'll it'll be fun next time someone else does it, wont it? 

Watch them close that loophole super quick. 

Juve did the same in the Coppa Italia last night, and it was disallowed. Seems they are playing by different set of rules over there. Which will make things fun in the CL. 

12 hours ago, The_Ghost said:

Has anyone yet mentioned that the xG for the game was Leicester 0,79 and Chelsea 0,97? 

Whatever one can say, we certainly did not have the fine margins on our side last night. 

The ones I saw on Sky had the opposite. Either way, the notion we deserved anything more than what we got is absurd. Not a fan of the xG stuff.....never seems to reflect the truth  

9 hours ago, Holymoly said:

I'm sick to death of people quoting stats to back up their pet theories. Maybe look at the players we have at the club. Perhaps accept that we have an ingenue for a manager. We have long  yearned for a manager that was one of us, a manager that stuck around longer than ten minutes and helped develop a dynasty at Stamford Bridge. Now we have that and as soon as we drop out of top four contention for a month we are all baying for the head of the manager. Shame on you, shame on all of us if we force Lampard out the door. The board and Roman have their own distinct criteria of success and that pretty much just comes down to money. We the supporters however have a far more organic link to the club as many of us were here during the bad old days of the old second division. I can remember our league title of 2005 and crying at work as a 45 year old as it was the first title we had won in my lifetime. Back then we knew what it was to appreciate success. Today we have become far too blasé, far too entitled. I hope Frank is allowed to continue and learn to develop a style that we can all appreciate. FFS even the filth of Merseyside allowed Jurgen time to bed in. Last year, in his first year in  the Premiership, Frank got us to the CL and almost won us the FA Cup. In the first couple of months of this season we were rapidly becoming everyone's second favourite club. We can be quite despicably juvenile when supporting this club.

Picking at the bolded bits:

1. Great to have a long term manager. If it is the right one. Folly to stick with the wrong one just so we can say we have a long term manager

2. It's not because we have dropped out of top 4 contention. It is the fact we outspent (by some distance) every one of our direct competitors, "fixing" all of last year's problem areas,  and with each passing week, we get worse and worse, and fall further and further behind. 

3. If "we" force Lampard out of the door............what fantasy. Unless one of the MODs can confirm that Roman and Marina are regular contributors. Never in the 17 1/2 years that Roman has been in charge has he ever taken any notice of what the fans want, and quite rightly. Fans are fickle. 

4. What style is this you speak of? I genuinely can't work out what we are supposed to be doing, and nor can the players. 

5. What has Klopp got to do with Lampard? Why does Klopp being a success have anything to do with the garbage we are watching? Moreover, Klopp had a managerial pedigree and a CV to merit being given that time. In each of Klopp's seasons at Liverpool they took steps forward. Sometimes it was slow, and marginal, but they went from 8th to 4th to 2nd to 1st (with 2 CL finals throw in for good measure). At no point did Klopp spend a load of money and go massively backwards. Quite the opposite in fact. 

6. Being everyone's 2nd favourite club is exactly where you don't want to be. It means you are harmless. In 2004-2007 we were hated. It was great.  

2 minutes ago, LeBoeufsGolfBall said:

Its performances Vs results for me. Poor results I can put up with, as long as I am seeing some progress with the team, players or an understanding of what we are trying to achieve.

When performances clearly decline and look to be declining further, coupled with poor results and poor decision making. That's when, for me personally, I see no alternative but to change things.

 

Yes, poor results are one thing. The performances are just not acceptable, and are declining. If we were losing but putting up a fight, or if the opposition keeper got his knees dirty a bit more often, it wouldn't be so bad. In the 5 defeats, plus the draw to Villa, can you remember the opponents GK doing anything of note to keep us out? I remember one Pickford save at Goodison that he tipped onto the post.....and the Leno penalty save (that changed nothing) and that's about it. 

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21 minutes ago, Ham said:

You lurked in the undergrowth during the 17 game unbeaten run and couldn't wait to pounce on him. Your hiatus was well timed. 

Comical 

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