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JaneB

Leicester City 2 Chelsea 0

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22 minutes ago, Ham said:

I used bold. Even before Everton nobody said everything was brilliant and you only need to look at the match threads. West Brom? Southampton? Some frustrating games but we were getting decent points from poor performances.

Apologise for using the word brilliant, should have chosen a better word, or tried to be less sarcastic.

Still use whatever term you want, good, acceptable, promising. Whatever. 8 games which were, please insert whatever word you chose to describe our current run, and most have turned. 8 games.

 

 

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paulw66   
37 minutes ago, Ham said:

 

You lurked in the undergrowth during the 17 game unbeaten run and couldn't wait to pounce on him. Your hiatus was well timed. 

Martin's opinion was actually very consistent. He anticipated all through that period that the wheels would come off when we had our tougher run of games. Sadly, he was right. 

I was somewhere between the two. The unbeaten run was ok, but we didn't beat anyone any good. That becomes a problem when you then have a run of games against anyone any good. 

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4 minutes ago, Martin1905 said:

Apologise for using the word brilliant, should have chosen a better word, or tried to be less sarcastic.

Still use whatever term you want, good, acceptable, promising. Whatever. 8 games which were, please insert whatever word you chose to describe our current run, and most have turned. 8 games.

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

Martin's opinion was actually very consistent. He anticipated all through that period that the wheels would come off when we had our tougher run of games. Sadly, he was right. 

I was somewhere between the two. The unbeaten run was ok, but we didn't beat anyone any good. That becomes a problem when you then have a run of games against anyone any good. 

I'm happy to say I flip flopped like a flippy thing throughout , I thought we were doing OK , not great but put that down to injuries and trying to incorporate players unused to the EPL 

I'm likely to flip flop again if Lampard turns it around out of loyalty to Lampard alone but I cannot see it happen , as weeks go by we have seemed less fit than any team we play , bereft of the first idea of what we are supposed to be doing and horrifyingly easy to beat , so easy that I can see Luton winning at the weekend.

Once again the players don't come out of this looking good but Lampard is being made to look worse so clueless are we. 

I'd like to see him , instead of ever shuffling the pack , stick with who he considers his best players and play them together in a formation that suits them rather than him and give them two months together to see what happens. 

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40 minutes ago, Martin1905 said:

I just find it odd.

For months I was crucified for stating what I thought  was obvious. All anyone said was he should be given time, we had no pre season, we have a load of new players, it's a strange season. Then we went on a 17 game unbeaten run and everything was wonderful. How wrong was I and others, how silly did we look.

We then lost to Everton, went on a run of 5 losses in 8 and suddenly everyone that wanted to give him time has had enough. 8 games from thinking everything was brilliant and now you all want him sacked. 

One of the clubs greatest ever players, an absolute legend has been given 8 games for his biggest supporters to turn on him. 8 games.

 

That is the way it goes here.
Generally the more obvious and conventional a point of view is on here, the more aggressively it is opposed if it conflicts with loyalties to (or against) the manager.
Remember the "Conte doesn't buy players from Serie A" belief.

That is the world - the last year more than ever.  You have to choose between trying to be right but unpopular, or popular but frequently wrong.

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1 minute ago, Droy was my hero said:

You have to choose between trying to be right but unpopular, or popular but frequently wrong.

How about just choosing to be honest? It's not, and never has been, about chasing  popularity. There is no 'right', or 'wrong', just opinion.

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chelboy   
39 minutes ago, LeBoeufsGolfBall said:

Its performances Vs results for me. Poor results I can put up with, as long as I am seeing some progress with the team, players or an understanding of what we are trying to achieve.

When performances clearly decline and look to be declining further, coupled with poor results and poor decision making. That's when, for me personally, I see no alternative but to change things.

 

 

 

This. People  think it’s purely results that have people worried. The performances are the real worry. Based on our current performance level, there is no team in the league we can comfortably play well against and look convincing. We would struggle in every game. Even during that 17 game run there are performances that I could rate a 7 or 8. Right now we are hitting a 2 or 3 out of 10. On top of that players body language are looking negative and he has already lost some in that dressing room. When it gets to this stage most managers can’t turn it around.  For the club sake and for Frank’s sake it’s best we part ways. 

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paulw66   
23 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

 

I'm happy to say I flip flopped like a flippy thing throughout , I thought we were doing OK , not great but put that down to injuries and trying to incorporate players unused to the EPL 

I'm likely to flip flop again if Lampard turns it around out of loyalty to Lampard alone but I cannot see it happen , as weeks go by we have seemed less fit than any team we play , bereft of the first idea of what we are supposed to be doing and horrifyingly easy to beat , so easy that I can see Luton winning at the weekend.

Once again the players don't come out of this looking good but Lampard is being made to look worse so clueless are we. 

I'd like to see him , instead of ever shuffling the pack , stick with who he considers his best players and play them together in a formation that suits them rather than him and give them two months together to see what happens. 

Agreed. Stop chopping and changing and hoping to stumble on the right answer

I don't believe there is a single fan out there who doesn't want Lampard to make a success of this. To quote the Yanks yesterday, "your success, is our country's success"

To see Chelsea winning trophies with our greatest ever player in charge would be a thing of joy. I just don't see it happening and won't be blinded to what is going on in front of our eyes.  

Edit - nor am I prepared to give him a free pass because he was a great player. Let's be honest, if his name wasn't Frank Lampard, there wouldn't be a single person arguing that he should have even got the job, let alone still be in it. 

Edited by paulw66

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1 hour ago, Mark Kelly said:

I'd like to see him , instead of ever shuffling the pack , stick with who he considers his best players and play them together in a formation that suits them rather than him and give them two months together to see what happens. 

didn't we have that consistent selection before.  Rudiger down to 5th choice, Jorginho not considered, even dropping Kepa for Cabs.  The stern boss didn't work out, the faourites didn't perform either (other than Mount whose confidence seems to be sky high) so I don't find it surprising that we changed for a pragmatic approach.

2 hours ago, Ham said:

You lurked in the undergrowth during the 17 game unbeaten run and couldn't wait to pounce on him. Your hiatus was well timed. 

Funny.  I recall a very bitter discussion where Martin and one or two others were sharply told how out of order they were if they could not see the Emperor's new clothes in that period.

You lead the charge.

2 hours ago, LeBoeufsGolfBall said:

Its performances Vs results for me. Poor results I can put up with, as long as I am seeing some progress with the team, players or an understanding of what we are trying to achieve.

When performances clearly decline and look to be declining further, coupled with poor results and poor decision making. That's when, for me personally, I see no alternative but to change things.

I accept that you , Droy , Martin, Blue Rod have not been happy with a number of things for months, including performances amongst many other things in that. I didn't buy into a number of things you guys were saying, but it now appears that you were all reading the situation better than I was, as a number of the comments you have all been making are becoming more evident (a number of comments were also created to suit a narrative too)

I don't consider that to be me or any other poster jumping ship at the time of bad results. In fact, I would say most of the pro Frank backers on here still seem to be in that camp to me.

So for me personally, it does feel like we have reached the point of no return. It's certainly not results orientated though, its an accumulation of a number of things that appear more evident to me now, as to why my position has changed.

 

A very creditable post.
I'm not sure I am seeing a decline, just along continuation (and the absence of a long hoped for uptick).
But I guess that is what we were disagreeing about 10 games or so ago.

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City's goal against Villa was in that similar "not technically offside, but still not in the spirit of the rule" as the first (and maybe second?) we conceded against Leicester.

I wonder if it's just a coincidence or a new trend teams are trying to exploit. 

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8 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

didn't we have that consistent selection before.  Rudiger down to 5th choice, Jorginho not considered, even dropping Kepa for Cabs.  The stern boss didn't work out, the faourites didn't perform either (other than Mount whose confidence seems to be sky high) so I don't find it surprising that we changed for a pragmatic approach.

 

Maybe but we are still playing a formation that Lampard is seemingly welded to that does not suit the players he's picking .

Get them in favoured positions , give them eight weeks and see if the gell , if it means Ziyech or Werner or Havertz miss out then so be it.

Personally , and I've said as much since day one , I think Lampard's man management skills are non existent . 

How Giroud can see off the competition of Abraham and then find himself fourth choice behind Abraham , Werner and even Havertz who started as CF this season is utterly beyond me and If I were in Giroud's position I'd be clamouring for a transfer in this window.

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