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JaneB

Chelsea 0 Manchester United 0

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paulw66   
17 hours ago, My Blood Is Blue said:

I can think of a few reasons, unfortunately.

 

There is no  point at all having two left backs on the bench. If not Tammy, pick Anjorin or Gilmour 

16 hours ago, The_Ghost said:

I’m surprised Tuchel hasn’t started one of Werner/Pulisic to have some pace up front. I think that has been a big mistake against this United defense.

 

This. The front 3 was the wrong combo

 

16 hours ago, Holymoly said:

I suppose if CHO needed to be subbed TT probably didn't want to use his second sub so early, but still.

using 2 subs at HT is a touch risky, agreed

16 hours ago, Leo91 said:

I'm struggling to see the player that everyone harps on about with Reece James. 

He's a class act. Perhaps better suited in a 4, but his delivery today was world class. Shame it came after Giroud went off 

15 hours ago, Martin1905 said:

Think Christensen has been absolutely sublime. Again.

Yes. In a middle of a 3, class act. 

15 hours ago, Chrisb said:

Completely uninspiring. 

You disappeared after the Atletico game, but back after this one..........

15 hours ago, RobertoftheGiz said:

TT gone down in my estimation. Unable to beat a chancer like OGS. 

They are now 20 games unbeaten away from home. They are a very good counter attacking team

15 hours ago, JaneB said:

Thank goodness no one is paying to come to SB to watch this stuff.

So sick of finding goals so hard to come by :-(

As above. United are a very good away side. 

15 hours ago, Bison said:

We don't have good enough attackers to risk opening up too much.

We do. They just weren't selected. 

15 hours ago, Ham said:

Rudiger, AC, Kova and Dave very good. Rudiger MOTM.

Kante very good at winning possession but again, loses possession too much. 

 

100% 

13 hours ago, The_Ghost said:

Kante was better second half with the ball but does commit far too often and loses his position. We got lucky on one or two occasions where he went wandering off. I simply don’t see him in this system - for me, and I’m amazed to admit to this, I prefer a Jorginho - Kovacic partnership.... 

Yet again we seriously lack the cutting edge. Just keeping the ball won’t win you games, although it makes life a lot easier for the three central defenders. But we simply have to be more adventurous if this is going to be a sustainable set-up long-term. 

MoM a toss up between Rudiger and Mount. 

Yes, all of this. 

 

I really didn't / don't understand the selection and subs (in attack) in this or the Southampton game. United played a high line, and we selected 3 forwards, none of whom are fast. We had no out ball at all to play into so much grass behind their defence. If you play Giroud, you have to have pace running off him. When he brought a couple of faster players on, Giroud was then taken off, so they had nobody to play off. Conversely, at Southampton, he played fast players down the middle, when their defenders didn't move away from the edge of their box, and so had no grass to run in to. That game that was crying out for Giroud.  

I see Ziyech got a lot of stick on here during the game. Whilst he wasn't brilliant, following on from the above, the balance of the attack was all wrong. A player like him needs runners in behind for him to pick out. Several times he got the ball and there was acres of space behind their back 4 and nobody was running into it. I'm not sure what he was supposed to do. 

TT has made us very solid, but the balance in attack is wrong at the moment. Hopefully he will learn / improve over time. Liverpool Thursday is another where their full backs will be high, so we need pace in behind with Werner and or Pulisic.  

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A decent performance and on another day we take our chances. Giroud and especially Ziyech had very good opportunities and there were a number of half chances where we could have done better. 

Firstly the penalty, on initial watch I was convinced that Greenwood handled it. After watching replays it was clearly CHO however Greenwoods arm is pushing CHO towards the ball. Intent or not, you can't give a penalty for that.

One thing I've not seen mentioned anywhere was how the free kick that directly preceeded the incident was an absolutely shocking decision. Mount got penalised for being kicked in the head, unsurprisingly noone in the media has brought this up. Makes the whole discussion irrelevant as it should have been a Chelsea free kick in the first place. 

Rudiger and Christensen were absolutely outstanding. Azpi solid as usual whilst Kante and Kova did a good defensive screening job. We really missed Jorginhos passing and at times in the second half we were keeping slow, safe possession with no real purpose. 

Mount great as usual, at some point he's going to learn to compose himself more in the final third. Then he will be a scary prospect. 

Ziyech really does blow hot and cold even over the course of 90 minutes. In the first 15 he was on fire, playing great incisive and quick balls. I then thought he was pretty bad for the remainder of that half. Second half he was very good again however I can't shake the thought that the front 3 set up was all wrong. In order to get the best out of him you need runners in behind. I'd always want at least one of Werner or Tammy up there for this reason. It's why I always loved Hazard/Willian on one side dropping deep and creating with Pedro playing on the shoulder. Feels more balanced. 

I was quite disappointed that we didn't see more of Werner but understand TT said he needed a rest. I think he would have frightened the life out of Maguire. Pulisic still worryingly ineffective. 

 

 

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Jasonb   

I also thought on first time of seeing that incident, Greenwood handled and also think after seeing the slow motion Greenwood's arm nudges CHO's weirdly positioned arms.

I can only think CHO was aiming to chest the ball down so had raised his arms ready to use his chest yet the flight of ball caught him wrong footed. 

Re the media, Matt Stead writing for Footy365 calls out that free kick arguing it was more a foul on Mount.

I find it funny Ole complaining about the penalty, can only think mind games as he is worried about losing momentum. The great Utd complaining they lost as they did not get a penalty decision, whatever next.

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4 hours ago, RobertoftheGiz said:

18 shots, 6 on target, where as the Spud had 16 shots, 7 on target  yet the spuds got 4 goals "its a funny old game"

cannot understand why the likes of Pulisic is not doing what he did during the restart of driving at defenders in the box, and winning penalties.

You’d be forgiven if you had mentioned that with a 100% conversion rate we would have scored 1 goal yesterday. 

What you have written now makes no sense. Shots on target? Only one troubled De Gea. The rest were routine. 

1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

This. The front 3 was the wrong combo

I really didn't / don't understand the selection and subs (in attack) in this or the Southampton game. United played a high line, and we selected 3 forwards, none of whom are fast. We had no out ball at all to play into so much grass behind their defence. If you play Giroud, you have to have pace running off him. When he brought a couple of faster players on, Giroud was then taken off, so they had nobody to play off. Conversely, at Southampton, he played fast players down the middle, when their defenders didn't move away from the edge of their box, and so had no grass to run in to. That game that was crying out for Giroud.  

I see Ziyech got a lot of stick on here during the game. Whilst he wasn't brilliant, following on from the above, the balance of the attack was all wrong. A player like him needs runners in behind for him to pick out. Several times he got the ball and there was acres of space behind their back 4 and nobody was running into it. I'm not sure what he was supposed to do. 

TT has made us very solid, but the balance in attack is wrong at the moment. Hopefully he will learn / improve over time. Liverpool Thursday is another where their full backs will be high, so we need pace in behind with Werner and or Pulisic.  

Agree with you. The balance in the attack is not right and we are too slow in our decision-making. Far too often the players take the path of least resistance. We need to be braver and more direct in the final third. 

1 hour ago, Willian Dollar Baby said:

Firstly the penalty, on initial watch I was convinced that Greenwood handled it. After watching replays it was clearly CHO however Greenwoods arm is pushing CHO towards the ball. Intent or not, you can't give a penalty for that.

One thing I've not seen mentioned anywhere was how the free kick that directly preceeded the incident was an absolutely shocking decision. Mount got penalised for being kicked in the head, unsurprisingly noone in the media has brought this up. Makes the whole discussion irrelevant as it should have been a Chelsea free kick in the first place. 

Exactly! I thought I was the only one who had noticed. It was a ridiculous decision. Yes, both are leading with a high boot. Mount removes his, McTominay goes all in and hits Mason with his. 

How the ref thought that was a Man U free-kick is beyond me. Awful call. 

Edited by The_Ghost

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Chrisb   
1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

 

You disappeared after the Atletico game, but back after this one..........

 

I’m sorry, did I somehow miss a game in between?

Due to working last Tuesday night I didn’t watch that game so can’t really comment but if it helps you I’ll just make something up. It works for you quite often.

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3 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

I think the issue with the penalty is more to do with OGS post game melt down and the fact the referee is reported as being told its a penalty by the imbeciles at Stockley Park in earshot of a United player and then telling said player that he didn't want to open himself to the aggravation that giving that as a penalty would do ., or words to that effect.

reportedly (this is Shaw's version of MacGuire's version of the ref version of what Stockley Park may have said).
Even the football media know enough to only use this with a very explicit "Shaw says" cut out.

1 hour ago, paulw66 said:

I really didn't / don't understand the selection and subs (in attack) in this or the Southampton game. United played a high line, and we selected 3 forwards, none of whom are fast. We had no out ball at all to play into so much grass behind their defence. If you play Giroud, you have to have pace running off him. When he brought a couple of faster players on, Giroud was then taken off, so they had nobody to play off. Conversely, at Southampton, he played fast players down the middle, when their defenders didn't move away from the edge of their box, and so had no grass to run in to. That game that was crying out for Giroud.  

I see Ziyech got a lot of stick on here during the game. Whilst he wasn't brilliant, following on from the above, the balance of the attack was all wrong. A player like him needs runners in behind for him to pick out. Several times he got the ball and there was acres of space behind their back 4 and nobody was running into it. I'm not sure what he was supposed to do. 

TT has made us very solid, but the balance in attack is wrong at the moment. Hopefully he will learn / improve over time. Liverpool Thursday is another where their full backs will be high, so we need pace in behind with Werner and or Pulisic.  

Yes there wasn't a full set of options out there.
If you take Jorginho's passing out of CM, you have to have someone who can pass at AM - hence Ziyech.  Either way you have to someone who is going to run off the shoulder (Abraham) or through the back line (Werner at 10) as an option - otherwise the oppo CBs are free to overcommit all the time - which MacGuire loves.

The solution seems obvious, but the Kante/Kovacic pairing needed a run out before AM, as I am sure Kovacic will be rested in the game the weekend before.

The first 10 mins when we had a lot of possession, Ziyech was great. All that close passing around their box was being orchestrated by Ziyech.  Without the possession, when the No 10s become alternate target men, it is a lot harder for him.

Here is a thought - Ziyech at LWB!
WB is the easiest position on the pitch - the whole game plan is to play the ball through the middle, loads of energy forcing the oppo FBs to join the play, leaving our 8 vs 10 in the middle and fantastic opportunities for our lonely men out wide.  (They have to make the most of those opportunities though).
Ziyech/Werner at LWB, CHO/James at RWB, 2 Mounts at double 10 with Kante behind occupying the whole of the opposition.

1 hour ago, Willian Dollar Baby said:

Ziyech really does blow hot and cold even over the course of 90 minutes. In the first 15 he was on fire, playing great incisive and quick balls. I then thought he was pretty bad for the remainder of that half. Second half he was very good again however I can't shake the thought that the front 3 set up was all wrong. In order to get the best out of him you need runners in behind. I'd always want at least one of Werner or Tammy up there for this reason. It's why I always loved Hazard/Willian on one side dropping deep and creating with Pedro playing on the shoulder. Feels more balanced. 

Exactly

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JaneB   

“Never in the field of football was so much said by so many about a *penalty* that for once wasn’t given to Man Utd” (with apologies to WC).

Jeez 🙄 Liverpool and Man U are the great untouchables.

Just suck it up Ole and get on with the next match 😡

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Chrisb   
5 minutes ago, JaneB said:

“Never in the field of football was so much said by so many about a *penalty* that for once wasn’t given to Man Utd” (with apologies to WC).

Jeez 🙄 Liverpool and Man U are the great untouchables.

Just suck it up Ole and get on with the next match 😡

Scouse Sports football home page has managed to get the picture of CHO’s “handball” onto 7 of their news stories! 
 

Nothing else happened in the footballing world over the weekend.

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paulw66   
17 minutes ago, JaneB said:

“Never in the field of football was so much said by so many about a *penalty* that for once wasn’t given to Man Utd” (with apologies to WC).

Jeez 🙄 Liverpool and Man U are the great untouchables.

Just suck it up Ole and get on with the next match 😡

 

9 minutes ago, Chrisb said:

Scouse Sports football home page has managed to get the picture of CHO’s “handball” onto 7 of their news stories! 
 

Nothing else happened in the footballing world over the weekend.

compare the media coverage to the Maguire chokehold at OT

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