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CarefreeMuratcan

European Super League

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4 hours ago, Martin1905 said:

Nice sentiment. 

It is how they say they see themselves and I see no reason to disbelieve them.

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11 minutes ago, RDC Williams said:

...The top clubs (and some hangers on) are pissed off with the way UEFA are running European competition and they decided to replace one monopoly with another. ...

We have long criticised UEFA for their intrinsically self-interested, even corrupt practices and in principle a change would be a good thing. ...

I think a new ESL could be a good thing in comparison with the status quo, but where it is unworkable, as highlighted in the Chelsea communication, is in its closed shop nature. That to me is its only real issue.'''...

...The ESL will one day, in one form or another be a reality unless UEFA has a radical reform.

yeah
All this takes us in the same direction as what I have said about changing audience and changing TV business models.

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2 hours ago, RDC Williams said:

I have to say I'm finding the outrage and righteous indignation perplexing. The top clubs (and some hangers on) are pissed off with the way UEFA are running European competition and they decided to replace one monopoly with another. That is a political matter for the particular bodies involved. 

We have long criticised UEFA for their intrinsically self-interested, even corrupt practices and in principle a change would be a good thing. There is no doubt that each of the clubs involved had their own reasons for being so; I for one believe the contents of the letter sent to me and all Chelsea's season ticket holders and put up on the 5th Stand. There was a bandwagon which was about to leave town and looked like it had every chance of succeeding and we as an organisation believed that we could not afford not to be on it, despite having misgivings about some of its elements. 

I think a new ESL could be a good thing in comparison with the status quo, but where it is unworkable, as highlighted in the Chelsea communication, is in its closed shop nature. That to me is its only real issue. As such the wailing and gnashing of teeth is a bit embarrassing.

The rebel 12 sought to shake things up and get a bigger share of a bigger potential revenue pool which THEY would generate; perfectly natural when you exist within a political framework in which you have lost faith.

The 12 made their play, went off half-cocked and got the closed shop thing wrong, partially to incentivise its members to get it off the ground in the first place. They were forced by the incumbent, by the media and the instinct the fans have for a meritocracy to wind their necks in, but let's knock the overreaction on the head.

The ESL will one day, in one form or another be a reality unless UEFA has a radical reform.

They would have had less blowback and gotten their way if they rebelled from UEFA, but just copied and pasted the way the CL currently works. In other words make it more of a move akin to the PL formation, the revenue distribution becomes monopolised by the participating clubs, but the format and requiring qualification via domestic leagues remains the same. 

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8 hours ago, Martin1905 said:

Nice sentiment. 

Shocked anyone would think differently. 

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15 hours ago, RDC Williams said:

The ESL will one day, in one form or another be a reality

More likely after the next round of TV contracts, when it is realised the likes of SKY, BT etc are not willing to pay billions for TV rights anymore.

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Sciatika   

I think the consequences of post-2008 financial problems finally catching up and the usual cyclical changes to levels of interest in the game will cause huge changes in the next few years. Clubs like Real, Barce and Juve are broke. They can no longer compete on the global stage in monetary terms. Across the board, investors have realised that if you want to make a small fortune in football, you need to start with a large fortune. Many leagues are already dominated by a small number of relatively wealthy clubs, a lot of middling ones and some cannon fodder. I think there will be a drop of in engagement of non-affiliated punters, who are occasional viewers with little interest in paying for the mediocre games and so are unlikely to buy long-term subscriptions. This will squeeze the sponsors, leaving a lot less money in the game. The larger clubs will seek to exert their power and be resisted by the others. Clubs will go bust. In Europe, the wealthier clubs will increasingly try to take control over UEFA's competitions. In commercial terms, UEFA will be under pressure to make its competitions favour the biggest clubs because those are the fixtures they can sell to the sponsors. The same happens in the Prem/FA. So we will have a situation of declining interest leading to reductions in revenue, the collapse of a few big names. I think UEFA will create a multi-tier arrangement of its confederations possibly based on region to take into account travel costs but chiefly with mechanisms for moving from one tier to another. Then they would be able to focus the top teams on playing fixtures that they can sell to the sponsors.

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1 hour ago, Sciatika said:

I think the consequences of post-2008 financial problems finally catching up and the usual cyclical changes to levels of interest in the game will cause huge changes in the next few years. Clubs like Real, Barce and Juve are broke. They can no longer compete on the global stage in monetary terms. Across the board, investors have realised that if you want to make a small fortune in football, you need to start with a large fortune. Many leagues are already dominated by a small number of relatively wealthy clubs, a lot of middling ones and some cannon fodder. I think there will be a drop of in engagement of non-affiliated punters, who are occasional viewers with little interest in paying for the mediocre games and so are unlikely to buy long-term subscriptions. This will squeeze the sponsors, leaving a lot less money in the game. The larger clubs will seek to exert their power and be resisted by the others. Clubs will go bust. In Europe, the wealthier clubs will increasingly try to take control over UEFA's competitions. In commercial terms, UEFA will be under pressure to make its competitions favour the biggest clubs because those are the fixtures they can sell to the sponsors. The same happens in the Prem/FA. So we will have a situation of declining interest leading to reductions in revenue, the collapse of a few big names. I think UEFA will create a multi-tier arrangement of its confederations possibly based on region to take into account travel costs but chiefly with mechanisms for moving from one tier to another. Then they would be able to focus the top teams on playing fixtures that they can sell to the sponsors.

Good points.  But I'm not sure how true the bold part is.
Not only did we have 6 clubs invited into ESL.  But 3 of the 7 clubs still fighting for a top 4 CL place are Leicester, WHU and Everton.  None of them extravagantly funded by a new owner.

That is why I would be so keen to have the FA/Prem running the ESL - they really do know how to make it a competition.

 

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On 24/04/2021 at 1:01 PM, Droy was my hero said:

Is a perfectly reasonable argument IMO for UEFA to try to block the ESL.  Right.  I don't see competition law interfering with that.  Cakeism is a good way of describing it.

But it isn't anything to do with punishing the clubs for trying to create an ESL.  

Correct. But why would it ?,  My comment had nothing to do with punishment anyway. Not sure I have made a comment on punishment, Just the mechanisms that may be involved at some state , Or not. .  .

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6 minutes ago, southcoastal said:

Correct. But why would it ?,  My comment had nothing to do with punishment anyway. Not sure I have made a comment on punishment, Just the mechanisms that may be involved at some state , Or not. .  .

I think it was the first sentence I quoted

On 4/24/2021 at 0:20 PM, southcoastal said:

No offence , But I am not sure your reading of “cartel and competition law.” Is correct in this case.

My point was that having rules is not the same as being allowed to execute them and set punishments in UK or EU jurisdictions.
I interpreted your reply as disagreeing with that.

Still enjoying "Cakeism".   A line said with "Brioche".

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Let's spare a thought today for European giants Spurs who got to their first cup final for ages and barely got out of their own half .

Chickens.

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