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Juni   

And yes, you could absolutely convince Guehi to sign and do one more year of loan if you weren't feeding him absolute bullshit that anyone with any remote detection could smell a mile off. As soon as Frank was sacked, the academy players knew the score. Only one returning successful academy loanee has ever been given the meritocratic opportunity to impress in the first team outside of his reign and that was Christensen. Count the academy grads/returning loanees who committed to long-term deals before a ball had been kicked under Lampard. It's really not hard to work out what the players think.

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paulw66   
23 minutes ago, Juni said:

If you're not offering pathways to players you have developed in-house and who are clearly good enough, you are wasting your time and your money. Go ahead, sink another year into a declining Thiago Silva, spend £30m on a CB nobody will remember in two years, and pretend it's a sustainable theme while forgetting exactly why Chelsea are currently Champions of Europe.

what does this mean? serious question.

Mount went to Vitesse, then Derby. James went to Wigan. They were / are good enough to play at the top level.

What is Guehi expecting? nobody can be given guarantees. 

16 minutes ago, Juni said:

. As soon as Frank was sacked, the academy players knew the score. 

That being a 60-66 point team isn't acceptable. It is harder to get into a team that expects to win big trophies, than it is to get one that is happy battling for 4th every year. 

How many of Chelsea's discarded academy products have proven us wrong? I mean, foolishly wrong? 

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Juni   

Guehi has done everything Mount and James did, perhaps more, but hasn't got a favourable manager in the dugout so doesn't get the same treatment. There's no way you can say Mount and James made it because they were good enough without recognising they had help in breaking through the closed door that so many of their predecessors were frustrated by.

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How many of Chelsea's discarded academy products have proven us wrong? I mean, foolishly wrong? 

How many of them would've scaled new heights had they been given the chances Mount and James were given? Development isn't linear and it is absolutely affected by where you end up being forced to play. If Lampard wasn't here, Mount would've definitely been loaned out again, because Chelsea had previously shown no interest in giving a Championship player a chance in the first team, and there is a strong possibility he'd be nowhere near the first team now, or at the very least not the player he's become. Surely this much has become obvious over the last decade?

Chelsea have won just the two PL titles in the last decade while ignoring the academy btw, and had just as many disastrous seasons, it's hardly like the alternatives have been much better. But sure, put your faith in the board that at best stumble into good fortune rather than the only part of the men's side of the club that has been a consistent and undeniable success.

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paulw66   
12 minutes ago, Juni said:

Guehi has done everything Mount and James did, perhaps more, but hasn't got a favourable manager in the dugout so doesn't get the same treatment.

This, I don't get.

Guehi has clearly made his decision before pre season has even started, so what "treatment" has he got / not being given at this stage?

He has had one loan, (Mount had two, James one) and has decided to jump ship........ Quite simply, he hasn't been available to Tuchel for a single fixture, so what is he supposed to have done here? 

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paulw66   
15 minutes ago, Juni said:

 If Lampard wasn't here, Mount would've definitely been loaned out again, because Chelsea had previously shown no interest in giving a Championship player a chance in the first team, and there is a strong possibility he'd be nowhere near the first team now, or at the very least not the player he's become. Surely this much has become obvious over the last decade?

 

Not if you believe what Eddie Newton said the other day. Purely guess work, but I am certain if Mount had been discarded, he would have risen to the top somewhere else, because he is that good, and that determined. Ditto Reece James. 

The previous lot who have been discarded, have not kicked on. Solanke, Chalobah, McEachren, Sinclair, Woods, Mancienne, Bruma.........all the next great hopes who have at best, had resepctable careers, or at worst, didn't make it anywhere. 

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Juni   
8 minutes ago, paulw66 said:

This, I don't get.

Guehi has clearly made his decision before pre season has even started, so what "treatment" has he got / not being given at this stage?

He has had one loan, (Mount had two, James one) and has decided to jump ship........ Quite simply, he hasn't been available to Tuchel for a single fixture, so what is he supposed to have done here? 

Don't think for a moment his family and his agents don't know what Chelsea are up to and what their intentions are for him. They see stories linking Chelsea to other big-money CBs and, rightly, take the decision to further his career elsewhere. Chelsea lose an asset they could've instead trusted instead of doing what they've always done, which is knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.

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The previous lot who have been discarded, have not kicked on. Solanke, Chalobah, McEachren, Sinclair, Woods, Mancienne, Bruma.........all the next great hopes who have at best, had resepctable careers, or at worst, didn't make it anywhere. 

And again, I ask you to consider how different things might've been for each of them if they'd been afforded the same experiences as Mount. Look at Chalobah, a 17 year-old bossing the Championship, who went on to play well for a Chelsea title-winning team in relief of the starters. Nobody can tell me he wouldn't have at least been able to hold down a long-term rotation spot in midfield given the right opportunity at the right time, but he was instead then sent to ****ing Billy Davies at Forest and then to Burnley? **** sort of chance did he have?

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paulw66   
33 minutes ago, Juni said:

Don't think for a moment his family and his agents don't know what Chelsea are up to and what their intentions are for him. They see stories linking Chelsea to other big-money CBs and, rightly, take the decision to further his career elsewhere. Chelsea lose an asset they could've instead trusted instead of doing what they've always done, which is knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.

 

The best clubs will always look to bring in top class players. Competing with those players for a first team spot is exactly how it should be and is part and parcel of being at a club that expects to win trophies. If that scared him off.... 

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1 hour ago, Juni said:

Guehi has done everything Mount and James did, perhaps more, but hasn't got a favourable manager in the dugout so doesn't get the same treatment. There's no way you can say Mount and James made it because they were good enough without recognising they had help in breaking through the closed door that so many of their predecessors were frustrated by.

Mount and James came back from their loans and into one of the weakest Chelsea squads facing its lowest expectations in, no exaggeration, about 15 years.

That is the most significant and substantial difference between them and Guehi. It's not about what Guehi has and hasn't done, it's about what the expectations for the next few years are and what the standard has to be.

I expect that is exactly what Guehi and the people around him know, and fair play to them for recognising it and doing something about it.

What are you proposing as the alternative? The academy exists to serve the club, not the other way round. I really that sounds crushingly practical and unromantic, but it is true and it has always has been true. 

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Juni   

It's very simple. You have four CBs out of contract next summer and two of them in their 30s. You move on from at least one of them now and give Guehi 20-25 games in a 55-60 game season (and he is absolutely good enough), a platform to then stake his claim for more the following season. I guarantee you that would be acceptable but it won't be. They might sell Zouma but they'll probably sign Lacroix and it's that sort of behaviour that puts off talented academy players.

Essentially you're also saying that Mount and James would've been acceptable sacrifices for the 'greater good' too btw, because Chelsea are apparently good enough to be able to overlook talents of their abilities in normal times. Don't worry though, there'll be another chaotic collapse in the next twelve months and they'll lurch into another direction again soon enough.

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