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Liverbird

Frank Arnesen

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You're right, most of them do, but that wasn't my point. They're all internationals, many of them established, and the eldest is what, 24? Give it another five years and see where their careers have taken them and you can really start to fully appraise the work of a Head of Youth Development, as he was for the majority of his time at Chelsea. Trying to do so sooner is judging an incomplete job; the road to Chelsea's first team is hardly the easiest, let alone the managerial instability which has been commonplace here, so it's not exactly just a case of sign the kids, develop them and watch them grow into superstars at the Bridge. If only it were that easy.

Yes, some of the signings were expensive, but like I said, they clearly paid excessively to get players in who could facilitate an acceleration in the stature of the academy. Part of that is simply the attraction, making players sit up and take notice that Chelsea is a realistic destination. Look at overseas imports pre-Arnesen/Abramovich; they were almost exclusively Italian and due solely to Vialli and Ranieri being in charge. The club increased its global presence at every level and it costs money to do that.

Sure, it's easy to rattle off the list that didn't make it (although I stress again, many are still early 20s and can easily change that), but simply put, more kids fail than succeed. No amount of money or high-profile hirings will change that. It doesn't even necessarily increase your hit-rate by signing 'the best' from overseas because there's no guarantee that a 16yo who's the best in his age group is going to get any better. It happens.

Fine if you don't want to give credit for the restructuring of the academy and the inherent changes in playing style, you claim not to be able to measure it. I like to think I've seen enough of the youth teams over the last seven years to be in a decent position to at least project an opinion on it (I simply won't go out and say I'm right because I don't do that, it's just an opinion). As far as I see it though, if you're in the role he was with the remit he was given and if certain results come out positive, refusing to credit him even in part makes you look like you have an agenda.

Like I said at the start, I'm sort of indifferent because I can see plenty of positives and plenty of negatives, but I'm not interested in scapegoating. In both the bigger and longer-term picture you can at least see what he was trying to achieve and the talent that at least some of these players have/had, but it's never been entirely in his control whether they got that chance at Chelsea.

You make some valid points, I must admit. And I'd be the first to bow to your superior insight and knowledge on youth team matters. But on Arnesen, I'm inclined to agree with Droy. Anything he has conceivably achieved has come at too high a price and in many matters he has simply not reached the goals that he set himself.

Our academy is only as prestigious as the players it produces. So far, it's not been a whole lot. There's many reasons for that and many excuses to be made. And I think the academy has come a long way in the last decade (particularly since we've stopped spending stupid amounts on reserve players).

I'm just reluctant to give Arnesen a lot of credit for it, mainly because anything he is decidedly responsible for is nothing to be particularly proud of.

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Nick89   

It was Piet Di viser who scouted them not Arnesen

Maybe you're right, but Arnesen definitely gets the credit for it. Maybe because I'm Danish, and the media here is very 'Dane happy'. They actually made a comparison article between Christian Eriksen and Messi two years ago, because Eriksen got his national debut in a younger age than Messi. Not taking into consideration that Messi plays for a national team which is 100 times better.

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Maybe you're right, but Arnesen definitely gets the credit for it. Maybe because I'm Danish, and the media here is very 'Dane happy'. They actually made a comparison article between Christian Eriksen and Messi two years ago, because Eriksen got his national debut in a younger age than Messi. Not taking into consideration that Messi plays for a national team which is 100 times better.

Lets be clear here. Nobody "scouted" Ronaldo or Romario in the sense they found him or they recognised some talent others hadn't. They might take credit for getting owners to back their hunches with cash. They might take credit for persuading the authorities to give them Visas.

Ronaldo scored 34 goals in 34 appearances at Cruizero in Brazil.

Romario was a full international and top scorer at the Olympics before he went to Holland, aged 22.

De Visser and FA DO have a talent - persuading owners to splash the cash. De Visser is still doing it.

But recognising Ronaldo or Romario as a talent was something anyone could have done.

That Christian Bale - he's a good player.

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Codger   

And to think some people have the nerve to complain about Emenalo.

Mostly the people who complain are [demonstrably] ignorant. I'm very surprised that in a week (or so) when there have been some truly excellent articles written about him, Mourinho and other aspects of the way the club is set up - by dedicated people I might add, not journos - none, none, of them have made it to these forums.

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Almost a year late, I have just spotted that FA was dumped from Hamburg last summer.

His assistant, Lee Congerton is now Sporting Director at Sunderland. Arnesen has moved on to FC Metalist Kharkiv in the Ukrainian League.

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I completely lost track and interest in him. I must admit though now that you have brought him out it is with some pleasure that I see him getting his due in the Ukranian league. Also I am now curious as to all that "talent" we loaned to Fc Hamburg when he took over. If memory is not that faulty weren't at least a few of them going to waltz into the first team with uncle Arnesen, with professional contracts expedited, and athletic development inevitable?

As for Emenalo as many respectable posters have been arguing that he may be doing something right as we seem to be moving ahead as a club. Younger players, better manager, better manager-owner relationship, longer term planning, better PR. I don't see him as doing much in any particular capacity other than being a facilitator; but that is me. Nothing I read or heard supports this assumption, it is simply my bias as he was hired in much the same manner as Grant. At least Grant was hired at a time when there was somebody challenging the owner within the organization, and we all know the rest.

So yes I accept I have yet to understand what this person does and whatever I have read including the articles posted since last year have done nothing to change my mind, I guess I am getting to be cruel and obstinate in many ways, and I don't mean it lightly. I don't see the value in having him around, whilst we did our shopping on youtube last season. Now if he is helping Oscar, Piazon, Hazard, Wallace tie their shoelaces then things can change for me....

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Maybe this is for the Emenalo thread but we don't know his job description, his deliverables and targets.

We also don't know whether he's achieving or exceeding them - or failing.

What we do know is that Roman keeps a close cabal of trusted employees at the very top - is he a part of that or is he staying there on merit?

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