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paulw66   
8 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

They seem to be kicking on to me.  So far this season we are doing very well.  Tough opponents, very good return so far.

I thought it was just me.

One defeat and we haven't moved forward..........

 

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3 hours ago, Blue Rod said:

Ngolo Kante being out is not brilliant news, obviously. But I am more concerned about our recruitment over the past two seasons. We've spent a fortune on Pulisic, Havertz, Werner, Ziyech, Chilwell, Lukaku, and yet it doesn't quite feel like we've strengthened. None of these signings has proved capable of dominating a match, something you expect from a top signing at least now and again.  

Every time I've raised this,  some people have reacted angrily and sanctimoniously at perceived criticism of Marina, even though I never put the blame on her.  She's only leading the business part of it, and she's doing a brilliant job of that. But those responsible for the footballing decisions in our signings have to ask themselves if our recruitment has been good enough, because I don't think it nearly has.

Don't agree with this at all. It's just far too black and white way of looking at these signings, circumstances play a huge part and added to that , you have always been far more negative than positive.

Pulisic - We have seen some very good spells where he was our best attacking player. Admittedly, it came in a short spell of 10-15 games, but he has also suffered from a number of injuries in recent months. That has killed his momentum .

Havertz - He is still very much a work in progress. All the ingredients are there for sure, but he is still young and the best is certainly yet to come. To use a racing analogy, he is a backward 2 year old who has shown flashes of great ability, but not quite grown into himself yet to reach full his full potential. We purchased him for the long term and he is well on course to be a great asset for the club.

Werner - Just a bad buy. The wrong player at the right time.

Chilwell - Victim of formation change. Its as simple as that. Very good player, very good buy for what the manager was looking to implement. Unfortunately for him, a shift to a back three elevates the importance of Alonso and it really is as simple as that. If we want to go back to a four, he becomes the number one left back again.

Ziyech - Maybe not lived up to expectations, but he is a very good squad player option to have around. We need options with quality who can step in and contribute over 20-25 games per season. He can do that and that is his role right now. 

Lukaku - I struggle to see the issue. Been brought in to score goals and done exactly that so far. Sure, he is a bit of a flat track bully. We knew that when we signed him and that is exactly what we needed. No doubts we could have found a more technically gifted striker, but finding one with the goal threat of Lukaku is the golden unicorn every clubs wants and very few have . If you know of any alternative who was available for this role, well your a better scout than many real scouts (I don't include mid 30s Messi, Ronaldo short term and probably unrealstic buys)

It's far easier to moan and groan and not every single thing is rosy either. Lets face it though, we don't have a great deal to moan about really. We are Champions of Europe, we will be challenging for a title, we have some fantastic players representing the club, we have lost one game against one of the best teams in Europe. We have a manager who has done a great job and made us difficult to beat again. I would say we are quite spoilt right now.

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Blue Rod   
1 hour ago, LeBoeufsGolfBall said:

Don't agree with this at all. It's just far too black and white way of looking at these signings, circumstances play a huge part and added to that , you have always been far more negative than positive.

Pulisic - We have seen some very good spells where he was our best attacking player. Admittedly, it came in a short spell of 10-15 games, but he has also suffered from a number of injuries in recent months. That has killed his momentum .

Havertz - He is still very much a work in progress. All the ingredients are there for sure, but he is still young and the best is certainly yet to come. To use a racing analogy, he is a backward 2 year old who has shown flashes of great ability, but not quite grown into himself yet to reach full his full potential. We purchased him for the long term and he is well on course to be a great asset for the club.

Werner - Just a bad buy. The wrong player at the right time.

Chilwell - Victim of formation change. Its as simple as that. Very good player, very good buy for what the manager was looking to implement. Unfortunately for him, a shift to a back three elevates the importance of Alonso and it really is as simple as that. If we want to go back to a four, he becomes the number one left back again.

Ziyech - Maybe not lived up to expectations, but he is a very good squad player option to have around. We need options with quality who can step in and contribute over 20-25 games per season. He can do that and that is his role right now. 

Lukaku - I struggle to see the issue. Been brought in to score goals and done exactly that so far. Sure, he is a bit of a flat track bully. We knew that when we signed him and that is exactly what we needed. No doubts we could have found a more technically gifted striker, but finding one with the goal threat of Lukaku is the golden unicorn every clubs wants and very few have . If you know of any alternative who was available for this role, well your a better scout than many real scouts (I don't include mid 30s Messi, Ronaldo short term and probably unrealstic buys)

It's far easier to moan and groan and not every single thing is rosy either. Lets face it though, we don't have a great deal to moan about really. We are Champions of Europe, we will be challenging for a title, we have some fantastic players representing the club, we have lost one game against one of the best teams in Europe. We have a manager who has done a great job and made us difficult to beat again. I would say we are quite spoilt right now.

I admire your positivity. And I must admit, I do like to look where things may be going wrong. And things do go wrong, as often as they go right, strangely enough.

That said, I am not convinced one bit by your explanation for why these players are underperforming. They are playing the football they have always played. I just do not see them turning into different kinds of players. I am rather hoping that TT can find a system that makes the most of their skills. But the idea that after two more seasons, Havertz would turn into a player who collects the ball, controls it, moves it past one or two midfielders, gives it, gets it back, feeds a final ball to a No 9, and do it consistently,  is pure hope. He is not that kind of player, and never will be. And yet that is what our current formation and system demands of him.

And I don't really feel like I am moaning or groaning. All I am saying is that the quality we have added over the past two seasons does not seem to reflect well on the money we have spent. 

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Pinch me, I must have dreamt Kai Havertz scoring the winning goal in the Champions Leage Final a few weeks ago. This nonsense would never have been floated before we lost (at their 4th attempt) to a deflected goal against the best team in Europe. We have an excellent squad and TT is doing a great job. Same as last week.

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paulw66   

Team is allegedly:

Mendy, AC, Thiago, Rudi, Azpi, Alonso, Kova, Jorgingho, Havertz, Ziyech, Lukaku

That leaves, TC, CHO, Chilwell, RLC, Saul, Werner........Barkely?

No Mount, Kante, Pulisic or James.

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1 hour ago, Blue Rod said:

And I don't really feel like I am moaning or groaning. All I am saying is that the quality we have added over the past two seasons does not seem to reflect well on the money we have spent. 

It certainly has in terms of results.

We have also gone from a team that could score freely but conceded freely to one that concedes very rarely indeed.  There should be no surprise if that reduces the goals scored column, not just improves the points accumulated column.  
 

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Bison   
1 hour ago, McCreadie said:

Pinch me, I must have dreamt Kai Havertz scoring the winning goal in the Champions Leage Final a few weeks ago. This nonsense would never have been floated before we lost (at their 4th attempt) to a deflected goal against the best team in Europe. We have an excellent squad and TT is doing a great job. Same as last week.

Why is it nonsense?

He scored a legendary goal for the club and will be remembered fondly for doing so but to say he has underwhelmed would be an understatement. 27 league appearances last season returned 4 goals. Just the one goal in 6 so far this season. He is not very creative and has hardly any assists.

I think it's absolutely fair people are asking questions of him (and all of the attackers for that matter). I really want to believe he is better than what he has shown so far.

Edited by Bison

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Blue Rod   
22 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

It certainly has in terms of results.

We have also gone from a team that could score freely but conceded freely to one that concedes very rarely indeed.  There should be no surprise if that reduces the goals scored column, not just improves the points accumulated column.  
 

Well, the results have not been bad. I cannot really argue about that. However, we have won mstches in spite of some poor individual performances, let's be honest. Because we cannot win the league with these players playing at this level. That's for sure.

Edited by Blue Rod

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4 minutes ago, Blue Rod said:

Well, the results have not been bad. I can't really argue about that. However, we have won in spite of some poor individual performances, let's be honest. Because we cannot win the league with these star players playing at this level. That's for sure.

No - we have made the game a lot harder for the front three, and have seen absolutely amazing performances from the back 3.
The interesting thing about the 2nd half of last year is how the performances of every single player jumped, not just the new stars, but players like Rudiger and Alonso and even Kepa, who had largely fallen out of favour before.

You have a good point that this is not necessarily the right style for a team trying to dominate the League rather than a cup where key games are battled over 2 legs.
But then we did just buy Lukaku, the Graeme Hick of football.

Edited by Droy was my hero

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Jasonb   

I don't think Tuchel has been here for one season yet, didn't he join in November. We have won the CL and are only a point off the league.

He has only bought one player Lukaku and got an injury recovering one on loan.

I would like to see us score more yet happy to watch and see how the season progresses. 

I don't see us winning the League again yet think we might just do the double in the CL. 

 

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