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Ham   
10 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Would it be "political" if the FA or Premier League decided they didn't want an armed forces involvement or representation in any or their games from now on? Of course it would be. Same as the choice to, from time to time, have them involved is political. 

The argument that lands best with me against taking the knee is the pressure players and club staff are under to take part if it doesn't sit with them, and the abuse they'd get if they chose not to. The only other comparable situation in modern English football should be obvious.

Not that I necessarily have a problem with armed forces visibility in football. It just is political. It just doesn't jar because it sits alongside and supports a dominant politics rather than challenging it.

The armed forces making a symbolic appearance at a football match would only be political in its truest sense if they'd staged a coup on the way to Wembley. 

Edited by Ham

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3 minutes ago, Ham said:

The armed forces making a symbolic appearance at a football match would only be political in its trust sense if they'd staged a coup on the way to Wembley. 

Yeah, I forgot about all those PL grounds currently occupied by black feminist cooperatives.

This isn't an argument, because there is no sensible counter. Even having an armed forces in the first place is politics, never mind using or celebrating them in any way. Politics isn't just strange, annoying "other" stuff you disagree with.

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Just now, thevelourfog said:

Yeah, I forgot about all those PL grounds currently occupied by black feminist cooperatives.

This isn't an argument, because there is no sensible counter. Even having an armed forces in the first place is politics, never mind using or celebrating them in any way. Politics isn't just strange, annoying "other" stuff you disagree with.

What political point are they making then? I'm not saying you're wrong just wondering what the point of them being there is other than to turn back the great unwashed if they breached the lockdown. 

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2 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Yeah, I forgot about all those PL grounds currently occupied by black feminist cooperatives.

 

I think we are seeing a bit of a coup at Sky right now...

Is it just me - where do the military appear in football nowadays - what am I missing?

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Ham   
Just now, thevelourfog said:

Yeah, I forgot about all those PL grounds currently occupied by black feminist cooperatives.

This isn't an argument, because there is no sensible counter. Even having an armed forces in the first place is politics, never mind using or celebrating them in any way. Politics isn't just strange, annoying "other" stuff you disagree with.

I'm sorry but this is nonsense but not at all surprising coming from you. 

 

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9 minutes ago, Ham said:

I'm sorry but this is nonsense but not at all surprising coming from you. 

Very rude, which isn't that surprising coming from you. Especially when you've lost an argument of your own starting. 

It isn't my fault you don't know what politics is.

10 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

I think we are seeing a bit of a coup at Sky right now...

Is it just me - where do the military appear in football nowadays - what am I missing?

It's pretty rare, I think. Around Remembrance Day and sometimes the FA Cup final, to my memory. It's not something I've personally found intrusive or an issue, but that's because of my politics.

10 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

What political point are they making then? I'm not saying you're wrong just wondering what the point of them being there is other than to turn back the great unwashed if they breached the lockdown. 

As above, I don't see that they are present in football very much. But if we say they are for the sake of an answer to this question, then any visibility and celebration of them makes the very simple "political" point that their existence, presence and actions are to be celebrated. We're not all going to pretend that when and how to use armed forces doesn't come up in politics, are we? 

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Ham   
2 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Very rude, which isn't that surprising coming from you. Especially when you've lost an argument of your own starting. 

It isn't my fault you don't know what politics is.

 

There are many different ways of being rude and this includes being unbearably patronising. I wonder why I ever considered that yours was a shadow account for someone else on here. 

This post could so easily have been written by you know who. 

As you were. 

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JaneB   
1 hour ago, Droy was my hero said:

I don't think I have seen a military marching band at a cup final in years.  Even Pensioners in their Red Jackets are a rarity at the Bridge.
Am I missing something?

As for kneeling - if someone (James MacLean say) wanted to kneel during the British National Anthem for whatever reason I would perfectly understand - approve even.

But to kneel in order to show disapproval of the US national anthem which isn't even being played is damn right disrespectful.
Even I think that and there can't be many people on this site who find US war mongering and corruption more distasteful than I.

Not sure if I remember exactly what you have said in the past.  Is this a change in your view (sorry if not)?
There might be several reasons - I'm curious about yours.

No, no change of view.

51 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Would it be "political" if the FA or Premier League decided they didn't want an armed forces involvement or representation in any or their games from now on? Of course it would be. Same as the choice to, from time to time, have them involved is political. 

The argument that lands best with me against taking the knee is the pressure players and club staff are under to take part if it doesn't sit with them, and the abuse they'd get if they chose not to. The only other comparable situation in modern English football should be obvious.

Not that I necessarily have a problem with armed forces visibility in football. It just is political. It just doesn't jar because it sits alongside and supports a dominant politics rather than challenging it.

I really shouldn't have made any comment on this in the first place but it just annoyed me so much.  And now I gather it was the same before our friendly.

I do agree with that point TVF, in fact maybe that is the crux of the matter for me.  Why should anyone feel compelled to do something they might not feel comfortable with just because it's become fashionable to jump on a particular bandwagon.

Football already has excellent anti racism campaigns in place.  We don't need any more especially when they stray far too much into heavier political stuff.

Last word.

 

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7 minutes ago, JaneB said:

Football already has excellent anti racism campaigns in place.  We don't need any more especially when they stray far too much into heavier political stuff.

Is the FA interfering with US elections?  just asking.

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