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8 minutes ago, thevelourfog said:

Yes, yes, yes. I do think there is something pathetic about journalists, opposition fans and the general public laying into Chelsea about this, but the thing that is pathetic is the complacent worldview whereby you can 'other' any group of people to make it easier to not have to reflect on and address your behaviour. That is a tangent though to the point that we as Chelsea are responsible for what Chelsea does. If Chelsea or Chelsea fans do racism, anti-semitism or bigotry, Chelsea and Chelsea fans should do something about that regardless of what anyone else is saying or doing.

I think there's something quite telling about the fact that the anti-racism organisations the press are speaking to are broadly being really, really positive about the club and precisely because of how swiftly and unequivocally they are dealing with the situation. Of course most articles or news items aren't using what those organisations are saying as their headlines or pull quotes, but honestly who cares about press coverage more than they do what our club does to fight bigotry? Not me and it shouldn't be any of us here; hypocrisy is a long way off bigotry in the naughty stakes.

This BBC article is a good example ... https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46563997

Do "we"? Who is "we" and why do we have to do that? I think the Jewish community have, as far as a community that is made up of thousands/millions of people can, made it quite clear how hurtful the 'y' word is because of where it comes from, and what its use has meant. 

The issue here is that good, well-meaning people do racism all the time, and it hurts those good people to hear that so much that too often they choose to not hear it. Being racist or anti-semitic isn't necessarily about hating people in a purposeful, determined, deliberate way. It is also the things we take for granted.

"We" have no right deciding what the 'y' word does and doesn't mean.

It is an absolute outrage, IMO, that Tottenham Hotspur as a club doesn't do more to at least try to persuade its fanbase, and isn't regularly doing what we have seen Chelsea as a club do in recent days. It's also very poor form that the press as a whole does little about it. That doesn't excuse what we do.

Yeah, forgot about fatties being sold for human labour for centuries, or achieving political suffrage long after thin people, and being disporportionately represented in prison and the long history of fatties not being treated as human beings ... I know mods could take the view this isn't the time or place, but this is IMO such a poor post that it needs another post saying as much.

What does this mean in this context? I'm confused by it. One rule for some etc. isn't moral relativism, it's often just plain common sense.

 "We" is us in debating it .

I agree wholeheartedly that it's reprehensible but although distasteful the sentiment behind it , I don't believe is anti Semitic in intent . It's Anti Spurs .

It was probably clumsy of me but it is not my intention to offend .

If Spurs are stopped celebrating the Y word on a weekly basis it would hopefully die out on our terraces too , that would be the best outcome .

The trouble is in my opinion you should tackle everyone and not just the club the media have conditioned people to hate.

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synavm   

This idea that if Spurs stop using the Y word, so will Chelsea, Arsenal, West Ham etc.. I'm sorry, I'm very cynical. It's fairly ingrained in our active support base that the y word is a term of reference for Tottenham. Indeed Spurs fans would argue they only adopted it because they were tired of opposition fans chanting it at them - they say it wasn't Spurs that used it first.

The only way to combat that is for individual clubs to educate fans ignorant to the terminology they're using (the idea of Chelsea sending folk to Auschwitz for instance is a great idea, though I'd suggest they only need to send fans to the Holocaust exhibition at the national war museum.. but I digress). Simultaneously, there needs to be life bans for folk that persevere with the abuse. We cannot afford to wait for other clubs to do our job for us.

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kev61   

I can only share my experience supporting Chelsea,I mentioned being at a Chelsea game in the mid 80's when I walked out of the ground when Clive Wilson was being booed because he was black - fast forward to circa 2005 ( the last game I attended at sb) I called into a pub  close to the ground for a pint pre - game and was met with knuckle trailing anti Irish imbeciles.

That's where you will find these scum bags in general  - plant a rep for our club in the pubs, seek and destroy.

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paulw66   
3 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

 

Yeah, forgot about fatties being sold for human labour for centuries, or achieving political suffrage long after thin people, and being disporportionately represented in prison and the long history of fatties not being treated as human beings ... I know mods could take the view this isn't the time or place, but this is IMO such a poor post that it needs another post saying as much.

 

The fact you think I was comparing the plight of Jewish people through the ages with fat people is pretty laughable.

If the FA / Kick It Out / UEFA are serious about eradicating the Y word, they really should start with the people who go around calling themselves "Y*d Army"

 

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Leo91   

If it's the chant I'm thinking about of then in my POV, that word has lost complete meaning on the terraces because it's said so commonly by Tottenham. But if the media and governing bodies are that sensitive to it then it's not fair for one club to take the spotlight. Almost as if the journos have been sussed out over their treatment of Sterling they've now got a new toy in Chelsea FC. 

Edited by Leo91

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4 hours ago, thevelourfog said:
9 hours ago, paulw66 said:

Edit - it's the same with black people and the N word. If I go around calling myself fattie, and someone then calls me fattie back, I have no right to complain. 

Yeah, forgot about fatties being sold for human labour for centuries, or achieving political suffrage long after thin people, and being disporportionately represented in prison and the long history of fatties not being treated as human beings ... I know mods could take the view this isn't the time or place, but this is IMO such a poor post that it needs another post saying as much.

Quite.  There is half an argument about non-Jews using the Y word.  They'd be the same half an argument about Whites using the N word (Ali G?)

It is quite different when Blacks use it.  Especially as in most cases it is American blacks using the word where the issues have dragged on in a very real way throughout the last 200 years up to and including today.

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7 hours ago, paulw66 said:

The fact you think I was comparing the plight of Jewish people through the ages with fat people is pretty laughable.

Literally no idea what you're talking about. The point is you/we/Chelsea fans don't get to use racial or religious slurs just because other people do. The mental gymnastics people will do to get around this simple idea is bizarre. 

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12 hours ago, thevelourfog said:

One rule for some etc. isn't moral relativism, it's often just plain common sense.

No, it's one of the root causes for the polarization of the western society we see today. There is nothing about one rule for some that is common sense. We don't need special legislation for anyone, we are all humans. Leislation for humans should be enough. 

But in a world of culture marxism, moral relativism and post-modernism things that are bloody obvious nees to be revisited all over again. It'll be our downfall. In many ways I can't wait for it to happen. 

My last contruition to this thread. 

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synavm   
9 hours ago, paulw66 said:

The fact you think I was comparing the plight of Jewish people through the ages with fat people is pretty laughable.

If the FA / Kick It Out / UEFA are serious about eradicating the Y word, they really should start with the people who go around calling themselves "Y*d Army"

 

How are about going after all the clubs using that reference, particularly given Spurs for all their flaws started using that name as a badge of honour as so many clubs were chanting the y word at them - we can focus on our own club.

I'd also argue it's not just the 'bring on Tottenham or the Arsenal song' (which I loathe because it's one of a million songs where we're singing about other teams), it's 'he was only a poor little y***o', it's 'spurs are on their way to Auschwitz'. The same people that sing 'you killed your own fans', 'murderers', the same people that chanted their way through the Hillsborough moment of silence back in 2012 and hiss at Tottenham away.

There is an absolutely horrible minority lurking in our fan base and us saying 'yeah, but look at what X do' isn't going to solve it. I'm tired of being joined by the worst type of scum in the MHL. Let's have passion, let's direct it towards supporting the team and yes, we'll take the piss out of the opposition, but we don't need to be using racial slurs, singing about genocides and signing about recent tragedies.

Edited by synavm

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Zidane   
26 minutes ago, The_Ghost said:

No, it's one of the root causes for the polarization of the western society we see today. There is nothing about one rule for some that is common sense. We don't need special legislation for anyone, we are all humans. Leislation for humans should be enough. 

But in a world of culture marxism, moral relativism and post-modernism things that are bloody obvious nees to be revisited all over again. It'll be our downfall. In many ways I can't wait for it to happen. 

My last contruition to this thread. 

Jordan Peterson is a hell of a drug. Are you also big on that whole 'all lives matter' talking point? 

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