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Jose Mourinho Sacked For The Second Time by Chelsea. Joins Manchester United. And now sacked by them too!

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cam4blue   
56 minutes ago, Zoowraa said:

His time here twice have crashed and burned and his time at Madrid was also crashing and burning,

You are free to believe what you want; but really, he has "crashed and burned" once, his final few months here. 

Nothing wrong with his third season here the first time out. Came 2nd to a Utd team closing in on being the best in Europe. Won a couple of cups. CL semi final. Hardly "crashing and burning". 

His third season at Real (2nd in the league, CL semi) is a bad season only by the standards of Real. Probably better to call that an average season for them, in every sense. 

I think you have to admit that calling it "usual" it quite a stretch. What happened here this season is unusual for him, by any definition. 

Those two clubs (us and Real) have a lot of bulls**t around them anyway; no matter who the manager is. Since Jose joined the first time, we've only had two managers who have lasted a full season. Maybe you should consider why no-one else even has a third season at clubs like us and Real (and whether the "baggage" in question belongs to the manager, or the clubs). 

59 minutes ago, Zoowraa said:

This is his toughest job yet in my opinion and in a time when the competition is as high as it's ever been.

I think it's a much, much easier job than the one he just had TBH. 

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Interestingly the manager who lasted 2 years at RM & Chelsea has just been awarded the Bayen Munich job as a result!

3 minutes ago, cam4blue said:

I think it's a much, much easier job than the one he just had TBH. 

Absolutely

Edited by Droy was my hero

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Zoowraa   
30 minutes ago, cam4blue said:

You are free to believe what you want; but really, he has "crashed and burned" once, his final few months here. 

Nothing wrong with his third season here the first time out. Came 2nd to a Utd team closing in on being the best in Europe. Won a couple of cups. CL semi final. Hardly "crashing and burning". 

His third season at Real (2nd in the league, CL semi) is a bad season only by the standards of Real. Probably better to call that an average season for them, in every sense. 

I think you have to admit that calling it "usual" it quite a stretch. What happened here this season is unusual for him, by any definition. 

Those two clubs (us and Real) have a lot of bulls**t around them anyway; no matter who the manager is. Since Jose joined the first time, we've only had two managers who have lasted a full season. Maybe you should consider why no-one else even has a third season at clubs like us and Real (and whether the "baggage" in question belongs to the manager, or the clubs). 

I think it's a much, much easier job than the one he just had TBH. 

Third season/fourth season it's all semantics really. Things were going badly wrong here first time around before he was sacked, he had earned more credit  and was given longer to turn it around this time and he could not manage it.

So things went wrong twice at Chelsea, not once. The term I used crash and burn may not be entirely accurate, possibly because first time around we were too trigger happy.

More than enough quotes out there from hugely influential senior players in Ronaldo, Ramos etc to know Madrid in his final season was not at all a happy camp. I except the point about baggage at both Madrid and Chelsea though.

its very hard for anyone to deny that he overachieved in CL success at Porto and maybe to adegree at Inter, though in fairness they had some excellant and very experienced players at their peak during his reign. So I stand by my point, he overachieved at both these clubs but lacked the depth of competition that required him to be fully on it in 6th gear week in week out.

The two clubs were he has had serious competition, he has been succesful in that time, but all three of these jobs have ended acrimounously . I don't see how this can be denied by anyone and he has just taken a job at the most competitive time possible, I will be fascinated to see how he handles it over the next 2/3 seasons.

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Mutu7   

When does it ever not end acrimoniously for a manager at Real or Chelsea? Virtually every manager here and there in the past decade has left because of any combination of poor results, player unrest or friction with the board. The difference is most of the others haven't been successful enough to crash and burn three years into the job, because they're long gone by then anyway. Mourinho's success in context is that Real have won La Liga once in the past eight years, and that was with him. We've won the league four times under Abramovich and three of those were with Mourinho. Our only league title in the past six years was with... Mourinho.

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1 hour ago, Zoowraa said:

Third season/fourth season it's all semantics really. Things were going badly wrong here first time around before he was sacked, he had earned more credit  and was given longer to turn it around this time and he could not manage it.

You have been away.  Posts like this have been rubbished a thousand times in the past 6 months.

10 minutes ago, Mutu7 said:

When does it ever not end acrimoniously for a manager at Real or Chelsea?

Pellegrini perhaps.  No one seems to have a bad word for him.

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cam4blue   
1 hour ago, Zoowraa said:

Third season/fourth season it's all semantics really. Things were going badly wrong here first time around before he was sacked,

Meh. One loss and a couple of draws in the opening 7 games. 

I think the issues for us back then have been the same since, no matter who the manager has been. 

1 hour ago, Zoowraa said:

More than enough quotes out there from hugely influential senior players in Ronaldo, Ramos etc to know Madrid in his final season was not at all a happy camp.

It's always like that at Real. There are journalists making a whole career out of making up "sensational" stories about discord at Real. 

1 hour ago, Zoowraa said:

The two clubs were he has had serious competition, he has been succesful in that time, but all three of these jobs have ended acrimounously . I don't see how this can be denied by anyone 

I think the point is more that it always ends "acrimoniously" at the two clubs in question and that probably played a part in it ending "acrimoniously" for him. The stuff you are talking about (stories of unhappy players and internal conflict) is a staple of both clubs and it normally happens a lot quicker than a manager's third or fourth season. 

You could equally look at the two clubs he has been at that seemingly don't have the same culture of behind the scenes politics and the way it hasn't ended "acrimoniously" at them; rather than just writing that off completely because it suits you to do so. 

We're at the point where discontent at our club is the default state. Same thing with Real. Both clubs are a butterfly flapping it's wings in China away from a crisis. In a way it works, both us and them have trophy hauls most would envy. It is what it is. 

1 hour ago, Zoowraa said:

I will be fascinated to see how he handles it over the next 2/3 seasons.

I won't. I don't particularly care TBH. I think he'll do well there, but I hope we do better. Can't imagine being particularly bothered about them or any other team once the season gets underway. I wish him well like any old boy, but I don't particularly care about how any team (other than Chelsea) does. 

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Zoowraa   
21 minutes ago, Mutu7 said:

When does it ever not end acrimoniously for a manager at Real or Chelsea? Virtually every manager here and there in the past decade has left because of any combination of poor results, player unrest or friction with the board. The difference is most of the others haven't been successful enough to crash and burn three years into the job, because they're long gone by then anyway. Mourinho's success in context is that Real have won La Liga once in the past eight years, and that was with him. We've won the league four times under Abramovich and three of those were with Mourinho. Our only league title in the past six years was with... Mourinho.

Del Bosque , Pellegrini, even Ancelotti to some extent. It can happen.

You raise some valid points though. Jose Mourinho is a great manager, one of the best in the world and I don't see how anyone can disagree with that. I'm just highlighting my view as to why I believe there are pro's and con's to him joining Utd and why I don't believe his appointment ensures them great success ahead.

Trouble is , it's very difficult to highlight any points/patterns which might be in a negative light in relation to Jose, without being pitched in the anti Jose camp. I believe we had to sack him last season as he was the manager of a mess of a club, not all his doing in fairness, but it was the first time he managed a high profile crisis and he failed miserably.

He is still a great manager and as I have said, he makes Utd stronger without doubt . I just believe there are enough reasons/angles that can be drawn to suggest this Utd job is going to be extremely difficult and I can see the similar pattern following on over the next 3/4 seasons during his tenure. I expect success to some degree, but I think in three/four years time the same issues will rear their head. Maybe modern day football does not lend itself to managers managing for 5 yeas plus anymore at the highest level? I think if your very succesful then you surely have an excellant chance of building a 5+ years legacy, Jose has brought that success but in three of his five high profile jobs, he still has not managed to hang around much longer than 3 seasons. Sure he could have at Porto/Inter but he chose to leave to better himself, he didn't choose to leave the other three jobs yet had been very succesful. So based on what we know, it surely comes down to one of two things as to why. Either his style/intensity only works over a 3/4 year period before it goes wrong or he is just very unlucky to be sacked. I know which one of the two I think is more likely.

 

 

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Zoowraa   
40 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

You have been away.  Posts like this have been rubbished a thousand times in the past 6 months.

Pellegrini perhaps.  No one seems to have a bad word for him.

Yep I have. I gave it time to calm down post Jose, because this place was an utterly horrible place to be around that time. The new site lay out was also an added frustration.

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14 minutes ago, Zoowraa said:

Del Bosque , Pellegrini, even Ancelotti to some extent. It can happen.

FFS look at the Spanish table in Del Bosque's  3rd year and 4th year (and at Barca then)

And what did the table look like in Pellegrini's 2nd year or CA's third?  

They all got sacked.

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cam4blue   

 

9 minutes ago, Zoowraa said:

He is still a great manager and as I have said, he makes Utd stronger without doubt . I just believe there are enough reasons/angles that can be drawn to suggest this Utd job is going to be extremely difficult and I can see the similar pattern following on over the next 3/4 seasons during his tenure.

And again: it's an easier job than here was (and is). The transfer budget and wage structure alone make it so TBH, even without getting into anything subjective. 

Predicting a manager will last 3/4 years at any top club is surely praise BTW, but you seem to be presenting it as a criticism? You'd probably get strong odds on Conte lasting that long here (although I hope he does, as it will mean he has been a success). 

 

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