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Dingus   
1 minute ago, xCELERYx said:

Because in a couple years time the last thing we need is a 32+ year old Sanchez on 300k pw potentially being a squad player, when some of that money could be put towards locking down players we do have or bringing in others. 

Partly why we don't offer multiple year deals to players over 30+. The power of negotiation is in the clubs favour, and it allows for more flexibility. 

A 32 year old Sanchez would more than likely still be better than what we've got right now. And these players are top athletes these days. He'll more than likely still be in top condition for a good few years yet.

He's 29 so this would probably end up being his final big contract. Well worth the money and outlay if you ask me. But hey, everyone seems happy enough with Willian & Co. stinking it up so what do I know...

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Zoowraa   
5 minutes ago, Dingus said:

Again, why do you care about the finances of it all? Hazard will still get his wages regardless and as mentioned, might actually be inclined to sign a new extension and pay increase if he sees a fantastic player as you put it, join the club.

Who cares about potential negatives? If every club worked like that then no-one would sign anyone would they?

The mere fact that you are happy for us not to compete for a top signing like Sanchez is a more worrying sign. if you ask me.

Because its natural to care about what your club pays and sells players for. If you don't care about the finances, I take it you would not be bothered if we sold say Christensen for £20 million as long as we spent big to replace him? Of course you would, because you know your selling at the wrong price and getting done over. It works both ways.

Yes, their are potential negatives about every transfer, but clubs have to make transfers in/out. Its a case of working to a strategy identified by the club to try and reduce bad decisions where possible. You may want to argue with the specific strategy and pro's and cons to both sides on that. 

I think he is a fantastic player, but he is a fantastic player we should have been looking at when he left Barcelona and maybe Udinese (though we would have struggled to compete with Barca at that time). I think the deal now has way too many potential downsides.

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jones   
24 minutes ago, Zoowraa said:

Number of ways of looking at Sanchez though. If you are just looking at the player, then yes he is fantastic. However, you have to factor in other things in this deal. For me, Sanchez is a little similar to Rooney in some ways. He is 29 in actual age, but you could argue he is closer to 31 in footballing age. I say this because the guy has played a huge amount of football for a number of years now, its always very hard for the star man of a small footballing nation to miss a game for his country. Chile have been non stop with qualifiers, Copa America, World Cups, Confed Cups for a long time now, plus PL league schedule for the last 3-4 years. Throughout this period he has been the number 1 man for club and country, he plays a non stop intense style of football too. 

Then taking the finances of the deal into consideration, not so much his fee but if the reported wage is true then I think your asking for trouble with other squad members if we give him that. Then you do also have to question the long term strategy of the club, its a type of transfer we have not made in a long time (ie big money for a player of his age), it goes against the whole strategy we have been working under for the last decade .

Fantastic player, but too many potential negatives from the deal. Utd entering this race is pure desperation from their manager to get back on the major trophy trail, if his club want to back that then let them. I don't think we need to be competing with it.

Agreed. He would be a very positive injection to us short term, but is a very risky investment. Would be shocked if the club threw all its policies and strategies over board and went for Sanchez. It would be the clearest sign of desperation you would ever see.

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Dingus   
1 minute ago, Zoowraa said:

Because its natural to care about what your club pays and sells players for. If you don't care about the finances, I take it you would not be bothered if we sold say Christensen for £20 million as long as we spent big to replace him? Of course you would, because you know your selling at the wrong price and getting done over. It works both ways.

Yes, their are potential negatives about every transfer, but clubs have to make transfers in/out. Its a case of working to a strategy identified by the club to try and reduce bad decisions where possible. You may want to argue with the specific strategy and pro's and cons to both sides on that. 

I think he is a fantastic player, but he is a fantastic player we should have been looking at when he left Barcelona and maybe Udinese (though we would have struggled to compete with Barca at that time). I think the deal now has way too many potential downsides.

Why do you think we'd be getting done over? We'd be getting a peak Sanchez here.

Tell me, who in our current squad could rival Alexis Sanchez in terms of goals and productivity that would make this potential purchase worthless?

Again, this "can't be breaking the bank anymore/cautious" attitude you and many others have developed is a worrying sign. And I blame the club. Conditioning everyone that it's ok not to be in the mix for these players anymore and buying sub-par alternatives.

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Zoowraa   
13 minutes ago, Dingus said:

Why do you think we'd be getting done over? We'd be getting a peak Sanchez here.

Tell me, who in our current squad could rival Alexis Sanchez in terms of goals and productivity that would make this potential purchase worthless?

Again, this "can't be breaking the bank anymore/cautious" attitude you and many others have developed is a worrying sign. And I blame the club. Conditioning everyone that it's ok not to be in the mix for these players anymore and buying sub-par alternatives.

I'm not saying we would be getting done over. I was using that as an analogy of selling a player below their value, to explain that all football fans (including you) care about the finances in some capacity.

I have said I think he is a fantastic player and judged just as a player he is a clear improvement on the majority of what we have. It's not the only factor you have to consider though. Like it or not, football is big business and the days of just acquiring top players because he is available and you can have gone. They have definitely gone at Chelsea, even city for their wealth and willingness to spend crazy amount of money of player deals are drawing a line at this deal. This is a club who have based a relatively long term plan around getting this player are now looking at the deal and saying its not a good deal.

We have not competed on the same level as City for the last 5 years. So where is the logic to step in and run with a deal that even they deem too risky.

There is one desperate manager and one desperate club who are prepared to run with this deal. That tells you all you need to know.

 

Edited by Zoowraa

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1 hour ago, James Prescott said:

I’m pretty sure not even we are stupid enough to play £35 million for Andy Carroll - especially as Sanchez is available for the same amount. 

And forget those rumours about a Carroll/Bats swap. Bats is likely going to Seville - it’s just a matter of us finding a replacement first. 

Tbh, I do not see Carroll coming here for anything other than a loan initially. 

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jones   
2 minutes ago, Dingus said:

Why do you think we'd be getting done over? We'd be getting a peak Sanchez here.

Tell me, who in our current squad could rival Alexis Sanchez in terms of goals and productivity that would make this potential purchase worthless?

Again, this "can't be breaking the bank anymore/cautious" attitude you and many others have developed is a worrying sign. And I blame the club. Conditioning everyone that it's ok not to be in the mix for these players anymore and buying sub-par alternatives.

In the "close your eyes to finances" perspective, I think you miss a very vital point: for extraordinary investment to happen, something's got to give. The rumored financial demands in the Sanchez deal:

  • Transfer fee: 35mp
  • Sign on fee: 20mp
  • Agent fee: 10mp
  • Wages over three years: 54mp (350k/week)
  • (In addition, giving Sanchez 350k/week, would effectively mean Hazard's wage demands will go up with 50k (from 300k), a net cost of 13mp.)
  • Total: 132mp

For comparison's sake, someone like Timo Werner would probably cost 75mp (including agent and sign on fee), wages over 3 years around 25mp - a total of around 100mp. 

After three years, Werner will likely be worth 100mp, while Sanchez will be worth 0. 

For clubs like Manchester City and Real Madrid that is of less relevance than it is to us. But that is just the way it is, and there is a reason why we have not done signings like that one in years. Hell, we would not even pay the 10mp fee for Llorente!

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6 minutes ago, Dingus said:

Why do you think we'd be getting done over? We'd be getting a peak Sanchez here.

Tell me, who in our current squad could rival Alexis Sanchez in terms of goals and productivity that would make this potential purchase worthless?

Again, this "can't be breaking the bank anymore/cautious" attitude you and many others have developed is a worrying sign. And I blame the club. Conditioning everyone that it's ok not to be in the mix for these players anymore and buying sub-par alternatives.

Rightly or wrongly, the club have decided to abide by the FFP rules, so the finances are important, and the main reason as to why we want to build a new stadium. I'm personally not against us spending loads of money on new players in the "elite" bracket. However, my feet are on the ground and I understand how the club have decided to operate. I'm not overly happy about it, but there's nothing I can do. However, as an adult, I know that trying to convince myself that the club has hundreds of millions in a back pocket just waiting to be spent if only they weren't so miserly isn't going to help my sanity.

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Dingus   
2 minutes ago, jones said:

In the "close your eyes to finances" perspective, I think you miss a very vital point: for extraordinary investment to happen, something's got to give. The rumored financial demands in the Sanchez deal:

  • Transfer fee: 35mp
  • Sign on fee: 20mp
  • Agent fee: 10mp
  • Wages over three years: 54mp (350k/week)
  • (In addition, giving Sanchez 350k/week, would effectively mean Hazard's wage demands will go up with 50k (from 300k), a net cost of 13mp.)
  • Total: 132mp

For comparison's sake, someone like Timo Werner would probably cost 75mp (including agent and sign on fee), wages over 3 years around 25mp - a total of around 100mp. 

After three years, Werner will likely be worth 100mp, while Sanchez will be worth 0. 

For clubs like Manchester City and Real Madrid that is of less relevance than it is to us. But that is just the way it is, and there is a reason why we have not done signings like that one in years. Hell, we would not even pay the 10mp fee for Llorente!

You can say it's a "close your eyes to finances" perspective, but again - why do you/people care about the money side of it?

All I care about is the quality of the first team squad and what I see out on the pitch and at present, neither are in good condition.

Top players command the top money. Simple as.

But it seems like everyone wants to buy into potential and has an aversion to buying top level talent these days. Sad. 

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synavm   

IMO this finance stuff is all irrelevant as I think it's unlikely we're actually seriously in for him. Pretty sure the Sanchez side panicked when City pulled out and quickly briefed the press that we were involved to try and retain some leverage in their negotiations with United.

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