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1 minute ago, thevelourfog said:

Not 'by all accounts', just by all the accounts you want to pay attention to. 

I can imagine senior management thinking they know better than first line management and getting it wrong. Happens all the time. A football club refusing to buy good players to 'punish' a coach though... That's pathological. 

He was only the coach once they downgraded him ! Suit to tracksuit !

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26 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

He was only the coach once they downgraded him ! Suit to tracksuit !

I am going to bow out here as I am starting to feel like I am being Gaslit. However, me, you, and LoC/Zaf are of the same opinion. Conte may have got a profile of player he wanted but all were as LoC said, blatant caveats and not what he wanted, but that is ok as Jose just melted down and left him with an amazing squad. If people want to believe that a club of Chelsea's stature has to buy 3rd/4th choice options for their league winning manger that is also fine they can bask in the glory. As you have said in the matchday thread and I have said elsewhere, if believing the club has handled the transfer ban as best they could when Real, Barca and Atleti did it another way to ensure that they were not in the complete s**t for an entire season that is also fine. If people want to believe that giving the youth a chance but having no leaders/experienced players like Utd and Barca did when they did it, that is also fine. Let them trust the board as it is now at a stage where it is coming to death or glory, if it all does go well (which I do hope for, being an avid Chelsea fan) me, you and LoC are going to look stupid, if it does go wrong, then they can just delude themselves into dreaming up some other fantastical theories as to why the board have left the club in the situation it has and pass it off as fact and nuanced strategy. 

Edited by Conte Kante

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1 hour ago, Conte Kante said:

I am going to bow out here as I am starting to feel like I am being Gaslit. However, me, you, and LoC/Zaf are of the same opinion. Conte may have got a profile of player he wanted but all were as LoC said, blatant caveats and not what he wanted, but that is ok as Jose just melted down and left him with an amazing squad. If people want to believe that a club of Chelsea's stature has to buy 3rd/4th choice options for their league winning manger that is also fine they can bask in the glory. As you have said in the matchday thread and I have said elsewhere, if believing the club has handled the transfer ban as best they could when Real, Barca and Atleti did it another way to ensure that they were not in the complete s**t for an entire season that is also fine. If people want to believe that giving the youth a chance but having no leaders/experienced players like Utd and Barca did when they did it, that is also fine. Let them trust the board as it is now at a stage where it is coming to death or glory, if it all does go well (which I do hope for, being an avid Chelsea fan) me, you and LoC are going to look stupid, if it does go wrong, then they can just delude themselves into dreaming up some other fantastical theories as to why the board have left the club in the situation it has and pass it off as fact and nuanced strategy. 

Pretty aggressive mate. Just calm down and chill a bit. I haven’t said all is fine and that the season will be a good one. I firmly expect us to miss out on a top four. Can’t see any scenario where we do end up above City, Liverpool, Tottenham and Arsenal. 

The situation we are in isn’t contentious, we all agree we don’t have the squad we should. So why pretend otherwise? 

What we seem to disagree on is how we got here. Why don’t you just write that instead of the drivel in your post above? 

My stance is that António Conte is one of the worst things that has happened to us since Roman took over. You and a few others seem to think he’s some sort genius who took a rubbish squad to league champions. Obviously a load of bollocks mate. He had a great squad which got even better that first summer before he just ruined it all in 12 months which is why we find ourselves having this squad today. 

That is what we are disagreeing about. Nothing else. 

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1 hour ago, Conte Kante said:

Let them trust the board as it is now at a stage where it is coming to death or glory, if it all does go well (which I do hope for, being an avid Chelsea fan) me, you and LoC are going to look stupid, if it does go wrong, then they can just delude themselves into dreaming up some other fantastical theories as to why the board have left the club in the situation it has and pass it off as fact and nuanced strategy. 

lol, passing off the 'club cut off its nose to spite Conte's face' as the moderate version of events. 

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3 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

It was ANDREAS CHRISTENSEN'S twitter feed FFS, not "Bob's"!!!

Well that was perfectly obvious to anyone who read the post - especially you.  
This is all going on in your own head.

3 hours ago, Bob Singleton said:

Over half the arguments on these forums involve you as one of the protagonists... ever wondered why?

Because I answer back to stupid comments.  I mean look at this daft argument.

2 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

Sorry , you're right , he did get one player he wanted Bakoyoko on the proviso that he could deputise for Matic who the board promptly sold . 

Silly myth.  He was asked if he regretted Matic leaving.  You don't say "No" to that question, it would be rude.  He said he wanted Matic to hang around while Baka got used to the Prem.  That is as close as saying he wanted Matic to leave sooner or later as you can get.  

Why is it you insist of dragging up quotes as evidence when we all know manager comments are based around getting messages across (often false ones) and never about providing objective evidence under oath.

7 minutes ago, The_Ghost said:

My stance is that António Conte is one of the worst things that has happened to us since Roman took over. You and a few others seem to think he’s some sort genius who took a rubbish squad to league champions. Obviously a load of bollocks mate. He had a great squad which got even better that first summer before he just ruined it all in 12 months which is why we find ourselves having this squad today. 

Very close to this, but rather he had a recently great squad that had one good season in it before it needed re-building.  Conte just patched and patched, and their was no rebuild or long term strategy.  That worked in 2016, but should have changed in 2017.

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22 hours ago, Mark Kelly said:

I think selling out best centre half (by miles) to direct rivals desperate for a centre half with meagre funds to invest in a replacement is a ridiculous decision . 

However , if what A.C. Is hinting at is true and it transpires Luiz was questioning the new regime and throwing his toys out of the pram ( which we don't know happened ) then I take Lampards side in the matter .

Based on what Frank said in his interview today, ( I saw a brief clip on the 5th Stand), it seemed to me that since the manager had made it clear in an "honest conversation between manager and player" that David was not to be viewed as a first choice then consequently he, (Luiz), and the club jointly decided that it was best for him to move on. Frank said that there was no big-time fallout, but how honest he was being is up to conjecture obviously.

With respect to the size of the fee? I think that Frank and the club decided it was best to move Luiz on ASAP to stem any possible disturbance within the squad - exactly as you said yourself in fact.

 

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38 minutes ago, PeteRobbo said:

Based on what Frank said in his interview today, ( I saw a brief clip on the 5th Stand), it seemed to me that since the manager had made it clear in an "honest conversation between manager and player" that David was not to be viewed as a first choice then consequently he, (Luiz), and the club jointly decided that it was best for him to move on.

Where in this brief clip does SFL say that?

Lets be honest here.  Lots of people had opinions yesterday.  The interview as far as I can see has not changed a single opinion, and gives not a single piece of evidence to any theory.
Why can't we just admit - we are not changing our mind based on anything Frank has said.

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32 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Where in this brief clip does SFL say that?

Lets be honest here.  Lots of people had opinions yesterday.  The interview as far as I can see has not changed a single opinion, and gives not a single piece of evidence to any theory.
Why can't we just admit - we are not changing our mind based on anything Frank has said.

I watched the full PC and seeing Frank talk about makes the interpretation I and others do the obvious one. 

Clear as day Lampard has indicated Luiz isn’t going to be first choice. Why else would he move on weeks after signing a new contract?

You seem very certain I’m wrong, care to present an alternative? 

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1 hour ago, The_Ghost said:

I watched the full PC and seeing Frank talk about makes the interpretation I and others do the obvious one. 

I absolutely get that it doesn't change anything, and that any opinion valid before remains valid.  It doesn't confirm anything either.  A consummate pro in front of the screen, if Frank doesn't want to tell a story, the story is not told.  Everything else is just confirmation bias.

(it is an important issue because the media lie to us every day.  If we can't understand why we think the things we do and where the evidence really comes from, we are truly fxxxed when it comes to understanding the real world).

You have watched it - does SFL say - honest talk with Luiz AND I want to underline that there are no first choices?   Or does he say honest talk, and then a bit later someone asks him "Do you have any inked in players" and (MRDA) he says no he doesn't.

Another alternative story?  That Chelsea are looking for a new CB for next Summer and this season is not important.  (I know SFL bigs up what his plans are for this season but MRD applies to everything he ever says).  We got a bid for a 32 year old at a time where we had 10 defenders in the squad, 6 of which could play CB, and Hector on the sidelines.  Essentially anything that one might have assumed if no one had ever run with the story that Luiz didn't train because he was on strike.

1 hour ago, The_Ghost said:

Why else would he move on weeks after signing a new contract?

Why would we offer a 32 year old player a 2-year contract when we had 9 other defenders and the manager didn't think he was first choice?  Makes even less sense.

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chara   
2 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

I absolutely get that it doesn't change anything, and that any opinion valid before remains valid.  It doesn't confirm anything either.  A consummate pro in front of the screen, if Frank doesn't want to tell a story, the story is not told.  Everything else is just confirmation bias.

(it is an important issue because the media lie to us every day.  If we can't understand why we think the things we do and where the evidence really comes from, we are truly fxxxed when it comes to understanding the real world).

You have watched it - does SFL say - honest talk with Luiz AND I want to underline that there are no first choices?   Or does he say honest talk, and then a bit later someone asks him "Do you have any inked in players" and (MRDA) he says no he doesn't.

Another alternative story?  That Chelsea are looking for a new CB for next Summer and this season is not important.  (I know SFL bigs up what his plans are for this season but MRD applies to everything he ever says).  We got a bid for a 32 year old at a time where we had 10 defenders in the squad, 6 of which could play CB, and Hector on the sidelines.  Essentially anything that one might have assumed if no one had ever run with the story that Luiz didn't train because he was on strike.

Why would we offer a 32 year old player a 2-year contract when we had 9 other defenders and the manager didn't think he was first choice?  Makes even less sense.

Hmm..well presented Droy….history and reality are twisted every day in the real World and the Football(all sports I guess) World.

I like SFL's approach to the media...makes a nice change to know he won't say something that can be twisted because of imperfect English or rather be in a position where the media purposely misunderstand a remark....must be frustrating to have a Chelsea voice that can compete with the media with ease. 

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