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Michael Tucker

Tottenham 5 Chelsea 3

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Bison   

I think people forget how young he still is. At 23 - he's still got a few years left before he's peaking. City's squad is peaking right now. Ours won't peak for another 2-3 seasons.

He is frustrating and far more frustrating than either Willian or Schurrle in my opinion. Reason for that is that his ceiling is so much higher but he's not even close to realise all his potential.

One aspect is to blame the player. Another is to blame the club/manager.

I have serious doubts about that now. If Oscar's ceiling is 'so much higher' than Willian's or Schurrle's it's only because you don't rate them much and not because Oscar is exceptionally talented (because he really isn't).

Oscar is not close to realising his 'potential' because, ultimately, he isn't as good as we thought he was. He is no better than when he first arrived in my honest opinion. He is a functional player who really shouldn't be a guaranteed first team player for a club with our aspirations. People think he's above the likes of Willian/Schurrle for whatever reason when in reality he is just as much of a weakness as they are.

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He's not here because he wanted too much money. Given his substandard season last year he had no business putting pressure on the club by demanding an out of proportion wage.

Now some of you may think that for his fantastic service to the club he deserved a renewed contract but don't forget Frank was paid a handsome wage when he was with us and if he felt a genuine love for Chelsea he would have taken a pay cut and helped us in other areas by motivating and coaching etc.... I mean, it's not like he was going to fall behnd on the mortgage if he had a drop in wages. He could learn something from Drogba.

There's also the question of FFP. No one would seriously say we did not buy wisely and make the necessary adjustments to challenge for the Title. To keep Frank would have been a luxury, last season proved that.

Frank is clearly on a mission to prove we were wrong to unload him and all that badge kissing seems a bit pointless now. There's a big difference between players and supporters, Frank refered to scoring against us as "doing my job", it's so much more than that. I remember Butch Wilkins going to Utd, I was gutted and so angry, I thought he was Chels through and through and could'nt understand why he wouldn't want to play for us in the 2nd division, he was doing his job. Well Frank I hope you do your job very badly at City in the same way I hope Silva, Toure,Kompany & co do a bad job....just as I hoped Wilkins would be rubbish at Utd.

It's nonsense to say "we messed up" with Lampard. I wouldn't change our personnel - one poor result against spurs does not wipe out some of the best football we have ever seen from our club.

I suppose that's one way to look at it. I'm not going to pretend that it's inconceivable that's exactly how it played out. Of course, it could have been that the club wanted a change and thought Lampards time was over and they offered him a contract that wasn't auitable for a player of his calibre or worse yet not offering him a deal at all.

Thing is that we can't be sure.

If I have to chose between 13 years of excellent service or to take the easy route and slag off a legend I'll firmly keep in the camp of giving Frank the benefit of the doubt. Especially after how he reacted after that 1-1 game against City.

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Ham   

Especially after how he reacted after that 1-1 game against City.

Chicken or egg. I think he was reacting to how we reacted to him. And it's because of the love he was shown there that I feel his decision to extend his loan is in very poor taste.

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He's not here because he wanted too much money

See, this is the problem I have with any discussion on Lampard leaving: people posting spurious, if not downright specious comments about the reason. You have absolutely no idea how much money Frank wanted, or whether it was any kind of issue (for him, or the club). Mourinho confirmed only a couple of weeks ago that it was the club's decision 'not to offer' Lampard a new contract (a decision JM now says that he agreed with - for footballing reasons). If he wasn't offered a new contract, then he had to go. It really doesn't get more basic than that.

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Chedaki   

Chicken or egg. I think he was reacting to how we reacted to him. And it's because of the love he was shown there that I feel his decision to extend HIS loan is in very poor taste.

I doubt he had a choice... One thing I do know is he is one of the most professional players in his ability and conduct.

People might forget that I think it was until that game against City years ago that he was on for a record of consecutive appearances for the club.

I think if you were given the choice between going to the MLS now.. Or keeping with his current club winning the PL and CL, while getting some abuse from MLS fans later I'd say it's a no brainier.

He's become far too valuable to the club.

Saying that from the clubs point of view it's disgraceful to see such behaviour..

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Blue Rod   

Are you seriously saying you can't see a sustained improvement of our game since Tubby compared to now?

You're not easily swayed are you?

Tubby: 75

Jose I: 82

Jose II: 87 (if we can keep the current pace)

If you're talking about "style" then the statement becomes even more difficult to comprehend.

Are we te finished article? No - we are not. Jose has always said this is a work in progress and it speaks volumes it took you six months to come back here. A team will have ups and downs during a season. It's the reaction that counts.

Well, the results are not too bad. We could actually win major trophies this season. I don't expect us to be a finished article. And by the way there is no such thing as a finished article. Even the best team is in constant evolution either upwards or downwards. My point is that we are not making progress in terms of how we play. I am sticking by that assertion.

Some of our fans have created this infallibility thing about José. They have to go to the length of the earth to defend him. And god forbids the management of the club buys into it, we end up in a Wenger"esque" situation.

We have been playing some dire stuff for some weeks now. After each match José has come before the TV camera to laud our "excellent" performance. Now it's a different matter if he says that only before camera. If Jose really believes that what we have been playing in the past month is good enough and that yesterday's result is the fault of the referee then we've got a problem.

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Regarding our so-called attacking three behind Costa... when Oscar first arrived, he was a breath of fresh air, full of little tricks, swerves, dips of the shoulder, long range shots that often troubled the keeper (if not actually finding the back of the net). Where has that gone? This is only my suggestion, and I may well be wrong, but I believe it's been snuffed out of him by a manager who wants him to work harder for the benefit of the team. When we were in for Willian, I thought "great, a tricky winger with pace and a good shot". Where has that player gone to? For me the answer is the same as for Oscar. What is the point of having all these creative, attacking players if their natural game is slowly being strangled out of them? If we need hard working midfielders who can harry the opposition, work hard at keeping the ball, and work even harder at getting it back, then why not revert to 4-3-3 with Matic, Mikel and Ramires, and truly allow the players ahead free rein.

As PeteRobbo says, our only real attacking outlets are Hazard and Costa. Shackle them and we are toothless.

Based on our most picked XI, we are ever so weak down the right. Ivanovich and Cahill, both individually and as a unit, are a liability with our higher line and higher pressing game, and Willian offers us nothing as an attacking outlet. Cahill keeps backing off from opponents, allowing them shots at goal, while Ivanovich has little positional sense, and with his arms behind his back, allows opponent after opponent to send in crosses virtually unhindered. Felipe Luis cost us £19m. He was, as far as I can tell, a 100% Mourinho choice. Yet Mourinho doesn't trust him enough to start him in anything but a few cup games (notwithstanding when he deputised for a suspended Azpillicueta). How about an extended run for both Zouma and Luis alongside Terry and Azpillicueta... surely that back four can't do any worse that what I witnessed yesterday?

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In what way would you blame the manager for Oscar's lack of contribution Dave?

If I was interested in taking that route, I'd probably argue that Oscar has been overplayed and not rotated enough.

However, I'm not sure if I'd personally take that route and blame Jose. Oscar has been rotated this season and it still doesn't seem to help him much. Of course it would have helped to have a sixth AM which I lobbied for ferociously during the summer.

At some point one will have to make a decision about his long term future. All I'm saying is that I'm not ready to write him off just yet.

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Well, the results are not too bad. We could actually win major trophies this season. I don't expect us to be a finished article. And by the way there is no such thing as a finished article. Even the best team is in constant evolution either upwards or downwards. My point is that we are not making progress in terms of how we play. I am sticking by that assertion.

Some of our fans have created this infallibility thing about José. They have to go to the length of the earth to defend him. And god forbids the management of the club buys into it, we end up in a Wenger"esque" situation.

We have been playing some dire stuff for some weeks now. After each match José has come before the TV camera to laud our "excellent" performance. Now it's a different matter if he says that only before camera. If Jose really believes that what we have been playing in the past month is good enough and that yesterday's result is the fault of the referee then we've got a problem.

.

If that's your assessment then fine. I see a lot of progress having been made over the last few months. Both I. Results but also in how we play. I have also seen a dramatic downturn in our fortunes lately and I don't think it has anything to do with our tactics but a lot to do with us simply refusing to rotate.

As for your middle segment - it's mainly rubbish I'm afraid. These boards are full of people blaming Jose for various reasons. Lately I've blamed Joae for some of our downturn and others have as well. So the view you're trying to depict simply isn't true. Jose is an extraordinarily good manager. That's all. He's certainly not infallible.

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Regarding our so-called attacking three behind Costa... when Oscar first arrived, he was a breath of fresh air, full of little tricks, swerves, dips of the shoulder, long range shots that often troubled the keeper (if not actually finding the back of the net). Where has that gone? This is only my suggestion, and I may well be wrong, but I believe it's been snuffed out of him by a manager who wants him to work harder for the benefit of the team. When we were in for Willian, I thought "great, a tricky winger with pace and a good shot". Where has that player gone to? For me the answer is the same as for Oscar. What is the point of having all these creative, attacking players if their natural game is slowly being strangled out of them? If we need hard working midfielders who can harry the opposition, work hard at keeping the ball, and work even harder at getting it back, then why not revert to 4-3-3 with Matic, Mikel and Ramires, and truly allow the players ahead free rein.

As PeteRobbo says, our only real attacking outlets are Hazard and Costa. Shackle them and we are toothless.

Based on our most picked XI, we are ever so weak down the right. Ivanovich and Cahill, both individually and as a unit, are a liability with our higher line and higher pressing game, and Willian offers us nothing as an attacking outlet. Cahill keeps backing off from opponents, allowing them shots at goal, while Ivanovich has little positional sense, and with his arms behind his back, allows opponent after opponent to send in crosses virtually unhindered. Felipe Luis cost us £19m. He was, as far as I can tell, a 100% Mourinho choice. Yet Mourinho doesn't trust him enough to start him in anything but a few cup games (notwithstanding when he deputised for a suspended Azpillicueta). How about an extended run for both Zouma and Luis alongside Terry and Azpillicueta... surely that back four can't do any worse that what I witnessed yesterday?

Have to say that there's an awful lot to agree with here, Bob.

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