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Official: Thomas Tuchel Appointed New Chelsea Head Coach

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On 19/05/2021 at 6:27 AM, Sideshow Luiz said:

I think it was more the fact that Frank had achieved top 4 without a transfer window, integrated several youth team players (yes, I know you say this would have happened with any other coach, but hey, he didn't screw it up) and got to a FA cup final.

It'd have been very hard for the board to justify sacking him in the summer after hitting all those targets, given the limited time and empty transfer budget he'd been afforded. 

You might debate whether those milestones/targets justify him staying on, but imo, he deserved a second season.

We scrapped into CL and won the CL. We did that with an immediate upturn of results under TT that would not have happed under SFL. He may have turned it around somewhat but not quick enough and everyone else around us also improved. He certainly does deserve credit for his achievements the previous season but his results in this were not nearly close enough to keep him. He is a legend and always will be and maybe with some experience he will get another chance.

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bert19   
On 6/5/2021 at 10:42 AM, exiledblue said:

We scrapped into CL and won the CL. We did that with an immediate upturn of results under TT that would not have happed under SFL. He may have turned it around somewhat but not quick enough and everyone else around us also improved. He certainly does deserve credit for his achievements the previous season but his results in this were not nearly close enough to keep him. He is a legend and always will be and maybe with some experience he will get another chance.

This. I always thought the big issue we had under Frank's management was a lack of experience and know-how on the coaching staff. 

No disrespect to Jody Morris, but a manager of Frank's obvious inexperience needed a Wilkins/Clement/Holland figure or two there with him, not an U18 manager. Someone that could and would have taken the lead on drilling the back four, coming up with tactical ideas etc.  We always lacked that calming, seen it before type of presence that was used to the everyday demands of working with first team players. 

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Jasonb   
39 minutes ago, bert19 said:

This. I always thought the big issue we had under Frank's management was a lack of experience and know-how on the coaching staff. 

No disrespect to Jody Morris, but a manager of Frank's obvious inexperience needed a Wilkins/Clement/Holland figure or two there with him, not an U18 manager. Someone that could and would have taken the lead on drilling the back four, coming up with tactical ideas etc.  We always lacked that calming, seen it before type of presence that was used to the everyday demands of working with first team players. 

Good point, shame about the passing of Ray he might have been that man.

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1 hour ago, bert19 said:

This. I always thought the big issue we had under Frank's management was a lack of experience and know-how on the coaching staff. 

No disrespect to Jody Morris, but a manager of Frank's obvious inexperience needed a Wilkins/Clement/Holland figure or two there with him, not an U18 manager. Someone that could and would have taken the lead on drilling the back four, coming up with tactical ideas etc.  We always lacked that calming, seen it before type of presence that was used to the everyday demands of working with first team players. 

Yes.  The point that came up on here quite a bit was that Frank took on a team of development coaches, not match winning coaches.  At U18 level the point is to make better players in the long run out of individuals.  At first team level the point is to win the next game.  Very short run, emphasis on specific tactics for tomorrow's oppo, training routines based on the tactics we will use tomorrow, not what the kid might see in 5 years time.
Those short term tactics and a basic understanding of the system we are playing on Saturday were clearly missing in the team's performances and in the experience of the coaching team.

The most obvious examples were corners which were useless until a few days after Chilwell arrived.  The Chilwell (later Mount) onto Zouma cross routine worked so got used repeatedly and for the first time the corner taker stopped looking up to see where a likely target stood, and the targets started making their runs before the corner was taken.  
Then there was the role of Jorginho which was never really clear to him or the rest of the team.
And often the team ended up playing a poor version of Sarriball, not because it made any sense, but because their muscle memory seemed to understand Sarriball from a season or two before better than what they had been coached that week.  That even applied to new players.

 

Have my doubts about Wilkins, but Clement/Holland figures were certainly missing.  Ironically they were both brought to Chelsea for the Academy, but they then stepped up into junior roles with Conte or JM where there was a crew of experienced first team coaches and managers who prioritised match winning to learn from.

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1 hour ago, Droy was my hero said:

Yes.  The point that came up on here quite a bit was that Frank took on a team of development coaches, not match winning coaches. 

Yes. By you ad nauseum.

And I doubt very much if Lampard and Morris saw it that way .

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6 minutes ago, Mark Kelly said:

Yes. By you ad nauseum.

And I doubt very much if Lampard and Morris saw it that way .

Which was precisely the problem.

I think there are three alternative points of view here

  1. Lampard was a crap manager
  2. Lampard failed because of some temporary reason like lack of experience / appropriate experience
  3. Lampard was a success

No one wants to say 1; those saying 2 (like Jorginho who got a fair bit of stick on here for it) are really trying to be nice to Lampard.

3.  remains the default pov of those that can't bring themselves to say 1 or 2.

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27 minutes ago, Droy was my hero said:

Which was precisely the problem.

I think there are three alternative points of view here

  1. Lampard was a crap manager
  2. Lampard failed because of some temporary reason like lack of experience / appropriate experience
  3. Lampard was a success

No one wants to say 1; those saying 2 (like Jorginho who got a fair bit of stick on here for it) are really trying to be nice to Lampard.

3.  remains the default pov of those that can't bring themselves to say 1 or 2.

Personally I'd go with number 2 and because of point two he was a relative 3 , did as well as he could given his lack of proper experience . 

Reading between the lines I think there was a bit of the Roy Keane about him in as much as he couldn't understand why things that came easy to him didn't to the players  on too many occasions.

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